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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Forgiving your brother

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Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Re:

Quote:

Your logic is flawed because 1) you are supplying additional meaning to the text that isn't there.



I am not supplying any additional meaning. In the words of Jesus - "If he repents forgive him". There is a condition for forgiveness, repentance. God also forgives the sins of a believer only when he confesses and repents from it. Else just because a person was once saved he is not forgiven for ever!

1 John 1:9 - 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

I am not a OSAS person but if it hurts anyone's OSAS belief then I am not responsible. That is not my intention here.

Quote:

2) you are ignoring other examples of texts found in the Scriptures



Other examples of scriptures are not in the context of forgiving a brother. In the context of forgiving a brother, Jesus always insisted that they repent.

Quote:

3)you are creating a false dichotomy between the love and grace a believer shows to unbelievers vs believers. If someone claims to be a brother, I get to treat them worse than an unbeliever? That makes no sense at all.



I already answered this question in my original post. Jesus commanded us to love our brothers above unbelievers (our neighbors) (John 13:34). So when we love someone with such a high love, there is also a responsibility that comes with it. We are supposed to confront them when they sin against us. We are not supposed to just forgive and forget. True love points the mistakes and not just covers things up to give a false impression.


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Sreeram

 2021/3/5 12:40Profile
havok20x
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Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 902
Pineville, LA

 Re:

I did say all those things, but, have determined that posting that was definitely not a good way to handle this. So, I edited my original post. If you don't mind, read that article, because I think it reflects what your line of thinking is. If it does reflect your line of thinking, then I will be able to more accurately discuss this.

 2021/3/5 12:45Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Re:

Yes I read through the article you have posted. It is a good one. It slightly differs from my view, it says we should be ready to forgive everyone who is willing to repent. That is what it means when we say "forgive our sins as we have forgiven others".

Here is the summary from the article -

Quote:

While we must not harbor bitterness in our hearts (Hebrews 12:15) or repay evil for evil (1 Peter 3:9), we should make sure we follow God’s lead and not extend forgiveness to the unrepentant. In short, we should withhold forgiveness from those who do not confess and repent; at the same time, we should extend the offer of forgiveness and maintain an attitude of readiness to forgive.


Stephen, as he was being stoned to death, illustrates the principle of forgiveness. Echoing Jesus’ words from the cross, Stephen prays, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them” (Acts 7:60; cf. Luke 23:34). These words show a definite willingness to forgive, but they do not indicate a completed transaction of forgiveness. Stephen simply prayed that God would forgive his murderers. Stephen held no bitterness, and, when and if his murderers repented, he wished them to be forgiven—what a wonderful example of loving our enemies and praying for those who persecute us (Matthew 5:44).



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Sreeram

 2021/3/5 14:12Profile
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 Re:

Excellent! Now I have some common ground to work from.

Would you say that it was wrong for someone to forgive a brother and YET still take them through church discipline as Matthew 18 describes?

 2021/3/5 19:02Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Re:

Quote:

Would you say that it was wrong for someone to forgive a brother and YET still take them through church discipline as Matthew 18 describes?




I apologize for not responding earlier, I am running busy these days hence not having time to post as much as I want to.

No I would not consider it wrong. But I consider it impossible for someone who is really forgiven to be disciplined or even confronted. Like the article that you pointed out, we are commanded to be ready to forgive anyone who hurt us when they repent. But when we have already forgiven someone how can we bring to remembrance the past and confront them for it?


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Sreeram

 2021/3/7 22:44Profile
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Joined: 2008/9/14
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 Re:

Okay, I see what you're saying. So here is another questions, what does forgiveness do, exactly? What is being conveyed from one person to another when forgiveness occurs? Is it spiritual, legal, transactional, etc? Thanks!

 2021/3/8 9:30Profile
followthelamb
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Joined: 2010/12/7
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 Re:

Brother Sreeram,

I just had a question regarding your post...would the refusal to extend forgiveness apply to just any sin that a person refuses to acknowledge (such as an outburst of anger or gossiping)...or would the refusal to forgive apply more to ongoing sins that would require public repentance and restoration?

Thank you brother!


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SI Moderator - Brandy Gordon

 2021/3/10 8:21Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Re:

Quote:

Brother Sreeram,

I just had a question regarding your post...would the refusal to extend forgiveness apply to just any sin that a person refuses to acknowledge (such as an outburst of anger or gossiping)...or would the refusal to forgive apply more to ongoing sins that would require public repentance and restoration?

Thank you brother!



Hello Sister, in my understanding so far the refusal forgive another brother comes only when the brother sins against me. It could be an outburst of anger or a gossip that in someway involved me and caused a harm to me. Then I am required to confront the brother and forgive him if he repents. The order that Jesus showed in Matthew 18 is very clear -
1. Confront your brother
2. forgive him if he repents
3. else take one or two more brothers to confront him
4. if he is still not repenting then involve the Church. Only now it becomes public.

If the sin the brother is living in, is not affect me personally then I am not sure it falls under the current scope of discussion.


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Sreeram

 2021/3/11 0:27Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Re:

Quote:

Okay, I see what you're saying. So here is another questions, what does forgiveness do, exactly? What is being conveyed from one person to another when forgiveness occurs? Is it spiritual, legal, transactional, etc? Thanks!



I think I answered this question already in this thread. I also agree with your article on the transaction part of forgiveness.
Personally when I forgive another brother, I choose not to remember their sins against me. I also look at them as if they have never sinned against me. I derive this based on Hebrews 8.


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Sreeram

 2021/3/11 0:30Profile
havok20x
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Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 902
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 Re:

So, my question then becomes, on what basis did Jesus request the Father to forgive the sins of those who were crucifying Him?

If I am to truly follow the Scriptures, I think we've got biblical support in Christ for forgiving those who are CLEARLY not repentant, not for their sake, but for our own sake.

You will be amazed at the number of times I have told a brother "I forgive you" without them repenting and then, their immediate response is "I repent." Had the Father held those responsible for Jesus' crucifixion against them and brought swift justice against them, then a lot of people would have been killed that day. But without their repentance, Jesus forgave them, which for some (soldier who pierced his side, the thief on the cross, etc) lead to their repentance.

Remember: The kindness of God leads us to repentance.

 2021/3/11 1:26Profile





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