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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

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JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1597
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?

Yes! Amen 🙏🏻
He is essential to fulfillment in His Kingdom
As He moves, we move,... “keeping step with the spirit“
Pray we have a tender conscience towards Him and a heart that is quick to respond .
Intentionally keeping close to Him
If you’ve been gifted with the Holy Ghost you have been called into service;

1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
((((4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.))))
5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.


Light is essential in the spiritual battle, and the light of His presence is life that overcomes the darkness. We must stay in close step with Him else we lose our light - we can only stay close if we “follow” Him where He goes. Prayer,... especially for our enemies is one way that’s effective.
Interceding is His mark,.. standing in the gap between the Living God and a spiritually dead person/people.

People can and do fake the “gifts” and pious religious observance can fake the “fruit” but those are for others to see, to impress men. They’re still investing (sowing) into the world.
The response to follow Jesus from a willing heart can’t be faked,... but it can be and is bring neglected and forfeited if we stop investing our lives (sowing) into His Kingdom. [Not bearing our cross in the world]

His Kingdom, our eternal spiritual home, is at war.
His soldiers eat at His Table where He has prepared a feast of His Son, a perfect life, Jesus the Nazarene, the living word is our bread. If we don’t eat spiritual food we won’t have strength enough to fight, to labor in prayer.
If our shields (faith) isn’t tested,... refined in the Lords furnace, it won’t be strong enough to keep us out on the battlefield to do much other than to get off a few clumsy, poorly aimed (prayers) off before we get sniped by the fiery darts (distractions) and have to retreat from the fight.
If our eye be single (Jesus) we have true spiritual light, the eternal indestructible life of Christ. If our eye not be single, the “light“ we have is can not overcome darkness. If we, and we’ve all experienced it, take our eyes off Jesus and begin to live (sow) into the world, we reap in the world we must harvest in the world and we’ve been altogether ineffective in His Kingdom as our attention and efforts were elsewhere. His light is only in His proximities and when we aren’t intentional about staying in Christ we will inevitably be drawn away by the cares and concerns of this world.
That’s the evidence, the mark of the Holy Spirit. Being baptized with Him is only the beginning, learning to learn from Him, abiding with Him in prayer, letting Him teach us His word, etc... Otherwise we’re still in the fishbowl of the world and no amount of cunning or sorcery can fake being out of the bowl to anyone who is not in it. They’ve never been translated into His Kingdom, the Holy Spirit is essential to all Kingdom operations.





_________________
Fletcher

 2021/2/22 23:49Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1213
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi Nigel, I will pray for you to get it.

 2021/2/23 11:35Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1213
Germany NRW

 Re:

Dear brother havok,
You are in a good position to start with: desiring it, feeling powerless, wanting to be used of the Lord.

I will pray for you.

 2021/2/23 11:39Profile
TrueWitness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 558


 Re:

The term “baptism with the Holy Spirit” has been a problematic phrase for many people. Historically this problem has arisen from the Holiness Pentecostal teaching that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is conditional upon having first had an experience of “instantaneous, entire sanctification.” Their doctrine called this a “second blessing.” This same Pentecostal tradition also taught that one had to speak in tongues as the “initial evidence” that one had actually been baptized with the Holy Spirit.

This doctrine, while perhaps descriptive of the experience of the early Pentecostals, does not hold up to the biblical witness. One does not have to speak in tongues or have some experience of perfection to ask for and to receive the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Further, the purpose of the baptism with the Holy Spirit is not to give us religious experiences, though that may happen, nor to make us “holy,” though it may energize our sanctification. Rather, it is to make us useful in the Kingdom of God. Jesus Himself clearly defines the purpose and result of being baptized with the Holy Spirit when He says, “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth” (Acts 1:8). For the first disciples, this promise was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. They were not converted but empowered to witness to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The meaning is clear: The baptism with the Holy Spirit is the gateway into the empowering, gift-giving dimensions of the Holy Spirit’s work.

-Daniel


 2021/2/23 15:00Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2106


 Re:

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.,,,, there's a measure of humility and obedience required to receive the baptism of the spirit, and also the fire of god, pride must be recognized in ones life , for I will resist the proud only give this grasious to the one who humbles him self under the mighty hand of god ,and god will then exalt him ,,faith is required, you must know god will do it , ask , seek and knock....and the blessing will come

 2021/2/23 15:22Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 785
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

It empowers one for ministry, as evidenced at the day of Pentecost. Not to say the disciples weren't saved or had power prior to that. If you read the gospels Jesus commissioned the disciples to preach the gospel, heal the sick and cast out demons prior to His death and resurrection. And they did!

But Peter and the disciples kept failing in many ways, so they also needed power to eradicate indwelling sin. After Pentecost you see them getting victory in areas they were defeated in before.

I am really not trying to fault find or be critical here, but I sense an attitude of elitism among some christians (not pointing fingers at anyone here) who have had the experience (actually or supposedly). Shouldn't christians encourage one another rather than lay a heavy trip on people? I feel sometimes like I'm at the back of the bus, so to speak.

I remember one christian in my town whom I have known for many years, who told me "not to try to minister to my family until I had gotten the baptism". I thankfully ignored the advice, and after praying for my mother for several years, giving her a Bible and ministering to her, she said one night when she was praying and reading her Bible all night she felt "Jesus was in the room with her", in her words. I asked her what she was praying and she said "I said to Jesus I would do whatever He said." She had clearly repented, and was a changed person after that. Yes, she still had struggles, especially with addiction, but she hated sin from that moment on. She died suddenly about a year later. If I had listened to my friend she would most likely be in hell right now.


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Nigel Holland

 2021/2/23 18:09Profile
havok20x
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Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 894
Pineville, LA

 Re:

Does anyone here have any resources about this topic?

There are actually several "brands" of this idea:

The old-school Wesleyan type (pre pentecostal) that was called "the second blessing." Even that was divided into what it meant. Some took the Keswickian route and stated that one could enter into sinless perfection at the arrival of this "second blessing" into full consecration. Others merely claimed it was power for service, power over indwelling sin, etc.

Pentecostals call it "baptism with the Holy Spirit" and there are several brands of that. Some--particularly oneness (which is already unorthadox)--claim that unless you speak in tongues, you're going to hell. Others (who don't deny the Trinity) generally claim that speaking in tongues is merely "normative" or "evidence" for a believer who receives the baptism of the Spirit.

Baptists who are not against the idea of being filled with the Spirit in a capacity beyond salvation tend to claim that being filled with the spirit is a desired state that is continuous, or that it happens multiple times.

ALL OF THAT BEING SAID:

I think it will benefit us to clarify, succinctly (please no dissertations) what it actually is that we believe about this doctrine. The reason this will help us in this conversation is so that we can help understand one another's positions. This is NECESSARY given that each one of us is assuming a definition upon the others. Sometimes, we use the same terms and mean different things. If we don't sort these things out on the front end, we'll just end up arguing.

I hold the final position I listed, if that helps.

 2021/2/23 18:23Profile
Platy
Member



Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 145


 Re:

Hi Havok,

You beat me to it. I hold to the same position as you. I come from an Assemblies of God background. There is so much confusion on this subject its unbelievable. Within one church you can have multiple differing viewpoints amongst the members. Once you start involving multiple churches it gets even more diverse. And once you involve multiple pentecostal denominations even more so. Assemblies of God teaches two blessings but there are other denomination like Church of God which teaches three blessings! Which one is it one, two, or three blessings?

Anyway I spent years trying to figure this out. I will do a thorough follow up post on my findings later today or when I get some time. But in the meantime here is a question to ponder. How come there is not a command or exhortation to seek a second blessing in the epistles or in the book of Revelation when Jesus rebukes the churches? Another question is where are these teachings coming from? Its mostly drawn out of non doctrinal/descriptive texts from the book of Acts and the gospels. Anyway I will do a follow up on this a little bit later when I get some time.

 2021/2/23 18:49Profile
billy1980
Member



Joined: 2016/3/9
Posts: 252


 Re:

Getting ready to leave work, but Tozer has one I let my brother borrow. He has said it has really helped Him so far.

Added, He told me God is really speaking to him through it.


Life in the Spirit (Hendrickson Christian Classics): Tozer, A W


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William

 2021/2/23 19:10Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1930


 Re:

Quote:

But in the meantime here is a question to ponder. How come there is not a command or exhortation to seek a second blessing in the epistles or in the book of Revelation when Jesus rebukes the churches?



Ephesians 5:18 - And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit.

So Epistles commands us to be filled with the Holy Spirit. If receiving the Holy Spirit is just one time blessing at the time when we are born again then why are we commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit?

I believe in 2nd blessing, but I also believe that God can give both in one blessing as well. That is what God's intention is, to bless us with Baptism of Holy Spirit when we are born again. But God cannot share his glory with man. Hence God clothes us with power only when we are powerless or recognize that we are powerless. If we recognize that we are powerless to fight sin at our born again experience then we will be clothed with power from high. But most of us are not. At least I was not. I believed I was a sinner and I need forgiveness. Hence I accepted Jesus as Lord and savior of my life. But it took me more than a year to recognize that I am in capable of fighting against sin by my own will power. The day I hit the rock bottom and acknowledged my failure, God baptized me with his Holy Spirit.

2nd blessing with of the apostles is clearly scriptural.

John 20 : 22When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

This is the first blessing. The Apostles received the Holy Spirit when they believed in the resurrection of Jesus.

In Acts 2 on the Day of Pentecost, the same apostles received the Holy Spirit with Power, the baptism of Holy Spirit. Hence it is 2nd blessing.

Whether one believes in 2nd blessing or not. What Jesus said in Acts 1:8 is true -

Acts1: 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.

If we do not have this power that Jesus speaks about to be a living Witness of Christ and to overcome sins, then we need to ask Jesus for this power. Else we need to call Jesus a liar. But sitting idle without asking anything as a powerless Christian, holding proudly to your theology is a wasted life. I see most Christians live such a life of powerless contentment.


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Sreeram

 2021/2/23 19:31Profile





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