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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : So how about the true prophet today

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narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 So how about the true prophet today

False prophet bashing seems to be just as popular as the false prophets themselves social media. There are several Tubers who do nothing else. They elevate themselves by trashing the false prophets. Mind you what will happen when they run out of false prophets to bash..

Yes, Jesus warned us that there will be many false prophets in the last days, but there are true ones as well even today.

It is logically impossible that only a fake of something exists. There must be an original and legitimate, otherwise the fake could never be defined.

I believe that the true gift of prophesy is a great asset to any church. It will never replace bible teaching but complements it, in fact we read in Acts that prophets and teachers paired up and ministered together. Unfortunately, it has been subject to great contention just as speaking in tongues - and the devil rejoices.
Especially as things come to a close on earth, the true gift of prophesy will become a great source of edification, direction and conviction. Paul exhorts us twice to seek the gift of prophecy. We will suffer loss if we ditch this precious gift and confine it to the first century or just use it as a pinball for heated debates.

I did a little study on true prophets in the NT with some references to the OT, too.

He has experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit Acts 19:6
His predictions come true (Acts 11:28)
He seeks to develop the gift of prophesy and treasures it: (1Cor 12:31, 1. Cor 14:1)
Is able to receive correction (Proverbs 9:8)
Will be subject to the body evaluating his prophecy (1 Cor 14:29)
His prophesy confirms with scripture (1Cor 12:3)
He himself is a keen student of scripute and bible prophesy like Daniel who studied Jeremiah (Dan 9:)
He is a member of a local fellowship (1Cor 12:12)
Knows that his prophecy is a partial contribution to the whole church service (1Cor 14:6)
Edifies the church (1Cor 14:3)
His prophesy can lead to conviction and conversion and lead to people falling down and worship God(1 Cor 14:25)
Has his head uncovered when prophesying (men) or covered (women) (1.Cor 11)
Does not impose himself on others (Acts 21:9-11)
He will seek fellowhisp of other prophets (2Kings chapters 2,4,6,9
They pair up with teachers (Acts 13:1)
He knows that he prophesies in part (1Cor 13:9)
He knows that love is greater than prophesying (1Cor 13:13)
Are likely to become martyrs (Rev 18:24)
Most of all he has the testimony of Jesus! (Rev 19:10)

 2021/1/22 17:54Profile
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2753


 Re: So how about the true prophet today

That's a good post. Thank you for your research.

I think part of the problem or lack of clarity today revolves around the meaning and function of the OFFICE of a prophet versus those who are just exercising a GIFT of prophecy. How can the two be distinguished? I admit that I believe the true office and proper function of prophet has been diminished and even cheapened during these days. But God able to right listing ships.

My 2 cents worth.


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David Winter

 2021/1/22 18:17Profile
havok20x
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Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 980
Pineville, LA

 Re: So how about the true prophet today

narrowpath, not the be argumentative, but if we're talking logic here...

You said, "It is logically impossible that only a fake of something exists."

Please tell me what the "real" version of Slenderman is? Slenderman is clearly fake. What is the real alternative? What about the "real" version of Korean Fan Death?

Proposition: Some Prophets are fake.
Conclusion: Some prophets are real.

So let's test this proposition and conclusion in other contexts:

Proposition: Some Kerfluffles are fake.
Conclusion: Some kerfluffles are real.

P: Some Slendermen are fake.
C: Some Slendermen are real.

P: Some exoplanets do not have life on them.
C: Some exoplanets do have life on them.


So you see: the logic you have provided actually makes no sense.

 2021/1/22 19:32Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

What about the Fivefold Ministry, is it still relevant today? This scripture is from the NT.

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. Ephesians 4:11-16 (NASB)


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Bill

 2021/1/22 19:36Profile
Onesimus4God
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Joined: 2006/1/16
Posts: 398
Cyber Space

 Re: So how about the true prophet today

Jer 23:22  But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings. 

This is the "acid test" for all true prophets. There is not one exception in the Bible. If they hear from and speak for the MOST HIGH, they call folks back to HIM. They call folks to Repentance and obedience. All of them, yesterday, today and until the 1000 year reign concludes.

If this message is missing from the mouth of the "prophet", you can be sure HE is NOT speaking for the great I AM.


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Lahry Sibley

 2021/1/23 9:56Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi Bill,
The gifts listed are relevant for today.We do not have Apostles like the Twelve or Paul and because of this we do not have Apostolic Doctrine or Authority.
If you read carefully the Mt Carmel narrative and the Pentecost Narrative you will see in both cases "The Twelve" are restored by the Spirit of Elijah and this happens again under the Ministry of the "Two Witnesses" in the end.
The "Two Witnesses" restore Apostolic Doctrine and Authority This in turn gets rid of the denominational divisions in the the body as the entire Church comes under their Ministry.
The gifts we do have today are not operating correctly or in the "unity of the Spirit ".
The reason we have so much division is down to different teachings.Paul knew the truth about the following issues that cause denominations or division for instance :Predestination,Tribulation or No Tribulation,Can A Christian have a demon,Pacifism or Holy War ,Gifts or No Gifts or Always saved or you can lose your salvation,

If we take all the difficult teachings out of the equation by the restoration of Apostolic Doctrine then we will have one Church not many denominations,
Unfortunately even though we do have gifts in the Church today their is so much hype and nonsense regarding them it becomes a stumbling block to many Christians and are put off by the antics.The "Two Witnesses " also have the authority to bring everyone back in line with the word and to deal with hype and nonsense if nessacary as you can see by the list of their powers,
urs staff


 2021/1/23 11:05Profile
narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi Havok,
I am talking here about real entities, not the imaginary things you mentioned; real hair - fake hair, real tears, real fake tears, real conversion-fake conversion and so on.

The bible says there are prophets and false prophets. The real is introduced first, than the fake. Before there can be a fake 100$ bill, there must be a real one, according to which the fake one is made up. So fake prophets will mimick the real to certain extent.

 2021/1/23 12:57Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re:


Hi staff

You wrote:
[The gifts listed are relevant for today. We do not have Apostles like the Twelve or Paul and because of this we do not have Apostolic Doctrine or Authority.]

We do have apostles today, though not in the sense of the twelve arch-apostles, whose left us the NT. Apostles today are simply those who are commissioned by God through the Holy Spirit and by laying on of hands to establish churches and hand them over to local elders. That is the NT pattern. We call them missionarys or church planters (which is actually the latin translation of αpostolos).

Of course we have apostolic doctrine today, because we have the New Testament writings and the Holy Spirit poured out on true believers.

You wrote:
[If you read carefully the Mt Carmel narrative and the Pentecost Narrative you will see in both cases "The Twelve" are restored by the Spirit of Elijah and this happens again under the Ministry of the "Two Witnesses" in the end.]
That marked the beginning and will mark the end of the church age. But even in between you see the true apostolic and prophetic ministry. The devil is scared stiff about true apostolic and prophetic ministry, because it is the foundational ministry. He works overtime to attack, mimick, defile and destroy it, because he knows full well that this causes great havok to his kingdom of darkness. God does what he said he will do and he has those who do it. Otherwise, he would be to weak and the bible is just wishful thinking.

You wrote:
[The "Two Witnesses" restore Apostolic Doctrine and Authority This in turn gets rid of the denominational divisions in the the body as the entire Church comes under their Ministry.]

Most of the church will have suffered martyrdom by the time the 2 witnesses appear. They will minister to Israel in Jerusalem mainly. I think their role is rather to bring judgement onto the unrepentant.

You wrote:
[The gifts we do have today are not operating correctly or in the "unity of the Spirit ".
The reason we have so much division is down to different teachings. Paul knew the truth about the following issues that cause denominations or division for instance :Predestination,Tribulation or No Tribulation,Can A Christian have a demon, Pacifism or Holy War ,Gifts or No Gifts or Always saved or you can lose your salvation,
If we take all the difficult teachings out of the equation by the restoration of Apostolic Doctrine then we will have one Church not many denominations]

If you take out all the difficult teachings, we are left with nothing. The truth of God must be revealed by the ministry of the Spirit and anointed teaching. God designed his truth to be difficult, if not confusing to the unregenerate – but plain simple to his children, yeah he even rejoiced over it - Luke 10:21!. I do not think it is differing views on difficult doctrines that cause divisions, it is people who substitute intimacy with Jesus with supposed bible knowledge. They have not been taught by the spirit, because that takes surrender, self-denial, obedience, and ardent seeking.

You wrote:
[Unfortunately even though we do have gifts in the Church today their is so much hype and nonsense regarding them it becomes a stumbling block to many Christians and are put off by the antics. The "Two Witnesses " also have the authority to bring everyone back in line with the word and to deal with hype and nonsense if nessacary as you can see by the list of their powers]

The gift of prophesy, as maligned as it is, is still alive and well. True prophets and apostles have to bear much reproach outside the camp, just as Moses Hebrews 13:13. The camp is the camp of Christians who rather follow other man’s doctrine and think they got it right. We will see prophesy in some obscure places. They prophesy to their local fellowships and you perhaps do not see much of them on YouTube. They will fit the description in the OP.

I recently re-read Wayne Grudems work on prophesy, I think it is very helpful. He also talks about apostles in the appendix.

 2021/1/23 15:04Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi Narrowpath,

I will just go point by point

1.On Apostles

My qoute
"We do not have Apostles like the Twelve or Paul"
I didnt say we hadnt Apostles today but we dont have Apostles like the twelve or Paul.

2 On Apostolic Doctrine
We of Course have the Apostolic Doctrine in written form but we do not have the Apostles to adminster it in the form of the Twelve or Paul.One church says one thing and another says another.Peter,James and Paul had the understanding and Authority to say what is what and what means what.We dont have that.It all down to personal Church intrepretation today.
3
On Difficult teachings
Nobody takes out the difficult teachings but Apostolic Authority will be able to teach a right understanding from a wrong understanding which we are not able to agree on now.
4
Role Two Witnesses
The Two Witnesses Ministry is world wide and will include the entire Church .We know that because we see that the whole world celebrated with their death.They die in Jerusalem.
Their Role is to Prophesy,Restore and bring Repentance

They Prophesy about the AntiChrist ,Coming Judgement of God and the end of the Church Age,
They Restore the Twelve Stones like Elijah did and John the Baptist did .Which is Apostolic Authority similar to Paul And Peter.
They bring Repentance and turn the hearts of the father to his Children and vica versa.
They are also a type of the Two Witnesses in a Jewish Wedding who sign off on the marriage.

ON THE GIFTS TODAY

Yes we have gifts today but they are not working in order.
We have for instance the gift to the Church of Pastors who have usurped their Authority.We also have a huge problem with having to have qualifications from bible colleges etc which God never ordained.
The Apostles if they do exist havent got Authority to chastise like Paul or Peter had and be correct.They also dont show any signs of their Apostleship like Paul explained.Apostles or sent out ones are really Church Planters.

I hope you will check out in detail as I have Elijah and Mt Carmel,John The Baptist and Pentecost and The Two Witnesses and the Spirit of Elijah,its a hidden gem in the bible that explains the end times,
urs staff

 2021/1/23 15:45Profile
Onesimus4God
Member



Joined: 2006/1/16
Posts: 398
Cyber Space

 Re: So how about the true prophet today

There is a grave error in our midst today, that being that the "church" (et al, all denoms) and the Body of the MESSIAH are one and the same. The most certainly ARE NOT! Then to attempt to apply Bible truth to both, and you are faced with the worst deception of all. There is only ONE GOD, ONE SAVIOR, one baptism, and ONE BODY. There are no divisions. None. The divisions themselves are apostates. All of them. The solution?

Rom 16:17  Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. 
Rom 16:18  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. 


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Lahry Sibley

 2021/1/24 12:11Profile





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