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Discussion Forum : General Topics : One angle of how bad theology plays itself out.

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havok20x
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Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 875


 Re:

The nature of prophesy is important here. Agabus indeed prophesied to Paul, but the one to whom the prophesy was directed--Paul--knew exactly what to do with it and did exactly what He was commanded.

The prophet in the OT who was killed by a lion also KNEW what the prophesy meant that was given to him; however, he willfully disobeyed it at the word of a lying prophet.

There are two tests--the Word of God gives them both. All prophesies are run through these tests. Since the Word of God is sufficient for all matters regarding His instructions and expectations, we need not look for another test.

Again, run every prophesy through these tests, regardless of whether you understand the interpretation or not. If what they say comes to pass, but they proclaim a god different from the Scriptures, they are false. If what they say does not come to pass and they crawfish on modify their words, they are liars and false. It's that cut and dry.

Now I understand that I am digging my heels in the ground on this, but this is all the Bible gives me on this (that I am aware of) and on that truth I am going to rest. Theoretical scenarios abound, but the Word of God is true. However, if you can demonstrate through Scripture additional tests, leeway, or anything else I am missing, I am all for it. After all, God did not make me the gateway of theology.

 2021/1/19 21:46Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1894


 Re:

Havoc,
Yeah the Christians intrepreted Agabus Wrong though and thats the point.The secondary point is sometimes the Prophet doesnt interpret.
Also it doesnt nessacary mean they are "liars" if the prophecy is wrong ,they could be liars or they could genuinely believe what they are saying is true.
We also dont know was Paul commanded to do anything ,it isnt clear on that.It may have been a decision Paul had to make without insight from God .
So I am saying the Prophecy is cut and dry and if true will come to pass but the intrepretation may not come straight away and in the quest to join the dots people sometimes may go off route.In that sense Old Testament Prophets have an added incentive to get it right ,their heads.
We should also mention that we have dreams,visions and Prophecy and alot of what you hear today involves dreams and visions which may not be 100% straight forward,

In context of the election though I think and believe he will have to be President this time around and a very important thing everyone is missing which is that almost everybody said their would be "exposure" and "judgement" as well
We have never had a time in the Church as this in our living memory where the lines are drawn theologically.Both sides can now say without doubt that if Trump becomes President then it is from God.
Lets wait .... before we rush and say thier is no Red Sea moment or Haman doesnt get to use his own equipment,lets have our funeral for Lazarus and wait the four days for Jesus to arrive.I think thats scriptural and wise ...

urs staff

 2021/1/20 2:57Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1878


 Re:

Quote:

Now I understand that I am digging my heels in the ground on this, but this is all the Bible gives me on this (that I am aware of) and on that truth I am going to rest. Theoretical scenarios abound, but the Word of God is true. However, if you can demonstrate through Scripture additional tests, leeway, or anything else I am missing, I am all for it. After all, God did not make me the gateway of theology.



Why are we going to the old testament on conditions a prophecy should satisfy? why not the new testament because we live under the New Covenant?

Paul clearly says this is what will happen when a Propshsyc is made in a Church.

1 Cor 14 23 Therefore if the whole church gathers together and all the people speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are insane? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

Bible is clear that in new covenant a prophet is given to the Church, not to a nation. So if anyone is under New Covenant and prophesies then the prophecy should reveal the secrets of the hearts of the people in the Church. If this condition is not satisfied then the prophecy is worth no salt to build the Church and the prophet is not one given to the Church to build.

So all the political predictions made public in the name of prophecies are not worth a salt in building the Church of Christ. They clearly fail the filter criteria given by Apostle Paul. If anyone got up in the Church of Paul and said who will win a political race then Paul would have kicked him out of the Church, sadly today people don't know the New Covenant nor the teachings and standards of the Apostles.


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Sreeram

 2021/1/20 13:52Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5709
NC, USA

 Re:

I agree Sree.

The whole idea of future telling pronouncements on social media by supposed prophets is off-putting.

It’s not valid, as you state, and there is no accountability. And judging by the comments to these “prophecies” there is a vast horde of apparently quite infantile Christians who are extremely gullible.

If these prophets had predicted a Biden win the same people fawning over the predictions of a Trump win would be castigating the Biden predictors as being of the devil and false prophets.

In other words, the Trump predictors were preaching to the choir who apparently had no discernment whatsoever.


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Todd

 2021/1/20 14:40Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1894


 Re:

Hi
Prophesy as we can see benefits the unbeliever and the outsider .Where better to get unbelievers and outsiders than outside in the world.The scripture is not saying that Prophecy can only be given in the confines of the building or only when Church is meeting.
Also in context of Paul's letter he was addressing the chaos of the Corinth Church and how they should behave when they are meeting and how to use the gifts when they are meeting.
He wasnt saying that the gifts could only be used exclusively when the Church was meeting.He was adding some discipline to his disciples.

"But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an outsider enters, he is convicted by all"

On Whether this is over

Martha and Mary thought this was over because of their unbelief but Jesus ressurected Lazarus after 4 days .
Jesus timeline was so God could be glorified ,Cant we at least have the resolve to wait for the 4 days?

urs staff

 2021/1/20 15:26Profile
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2354


 Re:

There seems to be a convenient out already being propagated. That being, we're not going by man's timetable and calendar but by God's timetable. That way, the fulfillment of the prophecies which were presented as going to happen here and now will be allowed to free float into who knows how long in the future.

I'm not looking forward at all to a Biden administration. I voted for President Trump twice. He has a undeniable long and phenomenal list of achievements. I would still love to eat crow, but it's my opinion, that, if all the prophecies about a Trump second term prove to be false then the difficult questions must be asked and the answers not avoided with replies like touch not my anointed and do my prophets no harm. Or the saints failed to join with the prophets in faith. The normal Christian layman saint deserves better than that. I remain disappointed in the election and the multitude of the prophecies that preceded it. I"m back to there are many voices in the world but the voice of the Lord is that which gives peace.


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David Winter

 2021/1/20 15:36Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1508
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: how long...

Aren’t there yet unfulfilled prophecies/declarations in the NT... ?
How long was the wait from the first messianic prophecies before the coming of Christ ?

While SI comprises the largest extent of my social media engagement, I’m not ignorant of the multitude of voices saying all sorts of things that may or may not occur- having said this the current stream of “prophecies” are mostly piggybacking on a few seemingly sincere voices. Unfortunately the monetization of modern Christianity has done untold damage to the cause of Christ and the “prophetic movement” is surely included in this failing. Even so, the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus Christ - when a true prophecy is heard the spirit bears witness for He cannot deny Himself.

Rather than attempting to exert some retrofitted church discipline upon those whom we don’t personally know or maintain fellowship with, perhaps our time would be better spent before the Lord in intercession that the name of Christ not be blasphemed ...
None of us here has any ability to stop or censor what other people say to, for or on behalf of Jesus, but we do have not only the ability but the commission to intercede before God on their behalf, if for no other reason then at least for His Namesake 😇


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Fletcher

 2021/1/20 15:55Profile
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2354


 Re:

The issue is settled by the fact that many of the prophecies strongly implied or prophesied Trump would begin his second term on Jan 20 which is today. That is what many were told to believe. Not some free floating time of fulfillment in the future. It"s just a simple undeniable fact this was done.


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David Winter

 2021/1/20 16:09Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1894


 Re:

Hi
Nothing is being propagated Docs.Its scriptural to say that God only gets the Glory when everything else has died as explained in detail before.

. That being, we're not going by man's timetable and calendar but by God's timetable.

This has not been proven yet and is still an "if" and we could say the opposite of course if they prove to be true their will be alot of people who will have to change course on what they have been saying and believing.

" if all the prophecies about a Trump second term prove to be false

Ive been listening about Persecution coming on SI for about 18yrs with no timeline except "soon" and the same people giving that prophecy which they say wasnt a prophecy of course were perplexed and disapointed that God put a Pro Life ,Pro Israel and Pro religous freedoms President into power.Sure if we wait long enough some persecution is bound to come along......

urs staff

 2021/1/20 16:12Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2354


 Re:

These prophets were not saying at the first what they are now saying about God's timetable versus man's timetable and the election. I would love to be wrong. I watched Mr. Biden being sworn in today and felt sadness, disgust, and anger. Nevertheless, I'm just trying to be objectively sane and sober and there's nothing wrong with me spiritually for doing so. I have been through the charismatic movement in its fullness and I know how long not addressing flakiness and falsehood went on. It wasn't healthy and we are still suffering from it. If I'm wrong then so be it but I am not willing at this point to participate in so many apparently false prophecies just being swept under the rug if indeed they turn out to be false.



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David Winter

 2021/1/20 16:31Profile





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