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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Believing the Prophets about the USA election.. 2 chron 20...

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deogloria
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Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 79


 Re:

A very good contribution sreeram!
"Let God alone be true. When Christ comes we will know who ran in vein and who contributed to building the Church.."
Amen!

 2020/12/2 14:25Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1809


 Re:

Hi Staff, without going into the deeper political discussion, what you are saying here sounds like a prayer to me. The church can pray for particular election results that will give freedom to the Church to worship the God they serve (1 Tim 2:2). The Church I am part of has done this in the past in a different country. But to prophesy about the election results is not fruitful to the building of the Church. That kind of prophecy is not even part of the New Covenant. During the time of Jesus and Paul, there were serious political conditions that were persecuting the Church. Yet we see no one prophesying about who will be ruling Rome etc. Even Herod who was persecuting the Church died during the acts of apostle time, yet no one in the Church is recorded prophesying about this death, etc.


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Sreeram

 2020/12/2 16:06Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1786


 Re:

Hi Sree,
If the prophesy is true and not false then of course the body is built up when we see how the Lord is faithful then of course its fruitful.What you are sayng is that the Lord cannot pick a leader in a democratic society or he cannot take sides or have his man that will do his bidding and I am saying of course he can and that he can communicate that.Its very clear who that is ,not that Trump is special in his own right ,he is special only because God has chosen him as a blocker.
As for prophesy about Politcal leaders the new Testament is full of prophesy about a coming world politcal leader called and named the Anti Christ and we know so much about him through Prophesy .
Indeed Herod is one of the great types of the Antichrist

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

urs staff

 2020/12/2 21:05Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1809


 Re:

Staff, I never said in democracy God cannot work. If it is so then why is Paul asking us to pray for the leaders? Democracy is clearly not God's plan or will. But God still controls everything including election results even though the process is not his perfect will.

The coming of AntiChrist is different from prophecy on Political leaders who will win an election! Paul wrote that prophesy to Thessalonians so that the Church will not be deceived about the events associated with the coming of Christ.


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Sreeram

 2020/12/2 21:22Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1786


 Re:

Hi Sree
I am not talking about whether democracy works or not.What I am saying is that God can pick political leaders and he can tell people about who he going to pick.
The Anti Christ is a coming political leader and so is a person who wins an election ,no difference and more than likely the Anti Christ will win a democratic election.We also know that the AntiChrist will be revealed and God can reveal other people too Good or Bad.

Paul gave a reason why he told them about the future(so they are not decieved) but that doesnt mean that God hasnt other reasons to tell people about the future.God can communicate by dreams or by visions or by words of wisdom and knowledge or by other ways and he can communicate anything he wants.He can communicate with the Church and he can communicate with unbelievers or future believers.We cannot limit him,urs staff

 2020/12/2 21:49Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2010
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
All the gifts are appointed in the context of the Church. The local Church of God is the body of Christ made of believers in a locality. Any gift operating outside the context of the Church is against this word and it is not from God.



Sreeram: I am not sure I can agree with you here. The church is not just the local body. The church is the entire body of Christ. I know men who are apostles, prophets, teachers, etc., and although they are plugged into a local body when they are at home, they travel quite a bit, ministering to the church at large.

I do agree that many men do not have any structure of accountability that comes from being plugged into and function ing in a local body.

Quote:
I know a Godly man who once told me not to read any spiritual books written by any man who has never built a Church or contributed to building one. I stick to that advice. It is a very good one.

.

Solid and good advice. The gift is proven by the fruit.


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Travis

 2020/12/3 10:06Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2010
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
The problem with the Church is clearly the unscriptural position Pastor has took in the modern Church .Its first Apostles then Prophets then Evangelists not Its first Pastors!Their is clearly a false authority issue here which could be known by another term.Apostolic doctrine needs to be restored to the Church which will happen I believe,urs staff



Staff: Not to try to get the thread off-topic, but it sounds a lot like the restoration of apostles and prophets. But the list in Eph. 4 is not meant to be a hierarchy of authority. It is simply a list of five ministry gifts to the body. If you put the foundation of apostles and prophets into its proper context you find that Paul is contrasting what was under the law with the new covenant and making the point that the foundation of the new covenant was laid by the OT prophets and established by the NT apostles. I think context is vitally important here as an entire denominational system has been built in Charismatic circles on this verse out of context.

I believe God has ordained these gifts to the body to interact with the body and with one another in submission to Him and in mutual submission to one another. Sort of a system of checks and balances in spiritual things. That is why Sreeram made a pretty good point about the accountability these gifts need by being in a local body. God does not give his roadmap to apostles and prophets for all others to follow. It is simply not in scripture. He does use apostles to establish and build, prophets to speak, teachers to teach, etc..


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Travis

 2020/12/3 10:15Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1786


 Re:

Hi Twayneb,
Their certainly is a hierarchy of the which gifts are the greater gifts and have more authority,their is no doubt about that otherwise Paul would not say I Paul an apostle.
The Apostolic is restored to full capacity in the end times and if the Church understood Pentecost more than ten percent then they would see how the Apostolic fits in.
The gifts do have a mutual submission because if the hand says I am a hand and I am more important than the toe and we dont need you toe then the body wont walk properly .
Paul an Apostle was not in one particular local body but had authority over many so the idea that God doesnt speak outside the local body is not correct.
Apostles are not lord it over types but the ultimate servants short of the service of Christ of course.But Pastors have in most Churches taken up a role that is outside of the bible and it is a form of wrong authority and is one of the biggest causes of disunity in the body.
All of the lists of the gifts are given in the context of the subject of unity and are given so that their would be unity in the body and that the gifts would function properly and in proper authority ,urs staff

 2020/12/3 13:20Profile
EAGLEFLYING
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Joined: 2012/9/25
Posts: 769


 Re:

Brother JOHN..
As a member of the BODY of Christ and a daughter of the KING. I remind u of HIS word.
1 Cor. 13---
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I am free to believe what I do.. I believe the prophetic words. I have discernment.. There are pathetic words out these also.. GOD will show real and fake.. Thats called maturity and discernment.
Bless you.
In Christ
Sister
Frannie


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Frannie

 2021/1/6 16:41Profile
EAGLEFLYING
Member



Joined: 2012/9/25
Posts: 769


 Re: ALL these posts.

As I read some of these posts I see that many here just want to critizize and debate.... Arent we all free to see HOW the LORD has allowed us to??
why do you want to be RIGHT.??.
Im so sorry for this. Perhaps this is why the church is just as messed up like the world.
Where is this contention from??
Are all here to help and encourage..?? I think Not...
Im so sorry to read some of these discussions. Perhaps its time for me to seek HIM about what He wants me to do.. I do not will not criticize anyone here GOD loves us all the same and there are no stepchildren here..
I pray you all are blessed with revelation of HIS word..
Perhaps this is why I am here to speak for those who believe in the Five fold ministry for today
I believe in the prophets 2 Chron 20:20 I stand on His word. I will not despise any prophecy
1 thess 5:20 Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
This is not unity and God is blessed with Unity.. Seeing the good being teachable.. Im not sure I see this here.. So sorry for anyone who i snot teachable and for anyone who thinks they have arrived and knows it all.. NOONE HAS A MARKET ON GOD. my bible says.
zech 4"6 Not by my might or power but by my Spirit.
There are people who have relationships with JESUS and Religious experiences with JESUS.. I want to learn more and more what He has for me.. Brother Blaine and I used to talk about this.. Perhaps this is why Im posting..
May You all be blessed
in Christ
A daughter of the KING.. who has not learned it all.


_________________
Frannie

 2021/1/6 16:50Profile





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