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AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 5185
Louisiana

 The Pope’s Position On Homosexual Marriage

Pope Francis calls for civil union law for same-sex couples, in shift from Vatican stance

“Homosexuals have a right to be a part of the family. They’re children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out, or be made miserable because of it,” Pope Francis said in the film, of his approach to pastoral care.



https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/pope-francis-calls-for-civil-union-law-for-same-sex-couples-in-shift-from-vatican-stance-12462?__twitter_impression=true


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Mike

 2020/10/21 16:02Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re: The Pope’s Position On Homosexual Marriage

Hardly surprising.


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Todd

 2020/10/21 17:54Profile
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
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 Re:

Quote:
They’re children of God



Using this terminology "children of God" is dangerous as it is scriptural language towards those who are regenerate or renewed in their Spirit and adopted by the Gospel. Jesus clearly taught some are the children of the devil and some are of the children of God. Not "all" are children of God.

But protestants are children of Rome, the idea of inventing or changing the gospel constantly based on private interpretation. The question has to always go back what did the Apostles believe and what did the early Christians believe (who were taught by the Apostles). We cannot seek to re-interpret the Scriptures based on our current ever-changing world.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2020/10/21 19:30Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 1025
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

"But protestants are children of Rome"

I beg to differ brother. One of the mottoes of the reformation is "sola scriptura". Luther and the reformers rejected extra-biblical traditions, whether they were the pope speaking "ex-cathedra", or oral traditions, or church councils (like the Council Of Trent).

"But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you." 1 John 2:27

All I need is the Bible and the Holy Spirit to teach me. Other writings may be helpful, but are certainly not authoritative.

A. W. Tozer said evangelical christianity is the faith of the Apostles. I would say Eastern Orthodoxy is much closer to Roman Catholicism.


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Nigel Holland

 2020/10/22 18:51Profile









 Re:

Hello Drifter,

Far be it from this man to speak for Greg but I feel led to answer that question you have wrought out of the mild consternation that Greg provoked by saying that protestants are children of Rome. I am particularly struck by your raising the point about the Eastern Orthodox Church.

There is a post that Greg made here:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=63450&forum=34

If you read that and hold to the notion of the time it was written and the condition it speaks of then you may see why the Eastern Orthodox Church is not Rome and why it is therefore not vulnerable to the same change that protestants are vulnerable to.

There may be many things that outwardly are similar to Rome in the Eastern Churches. But change and endless change to the demands of the world and the seasons is not one of them.

Protestants are denominationally the daughters of Rome. They are the children of Rome and Luther didn't want a schism with Rome - he wanted a reformation of Rome. In the end he got a new church.

I look forward to what Greg says to your point. I was looking at it for the last 24 hours and asking myself the same question.

ܡܫܚܐ

 2020/10/22 19:10









 Re:

Just to be helpful:

This is the element that makes the separation visible between Rome and the Eastern Churches. In this case the Syrian Eastern Orthodox Church in particular - but Greek and Russian Orthodox too.

Dearly beloved brothers, believe the Holy Spirit who speaks in us. We have already told you that the end of the world is near, the consummation remains. Has not faith withered away among mankind? How many foolish things are seen among youths, how many crimes among prelates, how many lies among priests, how many perjuries among deacons! There are evil deeds among the ministers, adulteries in the aged, wantonness in the youths—in mature women false faces, in virgins dangerous traces! In the midst of all this there are the wars with the Persians, and we see struggles with diverse nations threatening and “kingdom rising against kingdom’’ (Matt. 24:7). When the Roman empire begins to be consumed by the sword, the coming of the Evil One is at hand. It is necessary that the world come to an end at the completion of the Roman empire.

The detail is found in the reference to the wars with the Persians.

ܡܫܚܐ

 2020/10/22 19:23
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 1025
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I know Luther sought to reform the Roman church by bringing them back to biblical truth.

However both the Roman Catholic church and Orthodox believe they are the only true church, they both "venerate" images, they both put their own doctrine on equal footing with scripture (oral tradition for the Orthodox, whatever the pope says for the catholics), they have very similar ceremonies and liturgy.

It was the protestants who evangelized the world, who brought sweeping social reform, who enabled the scientific revolution after the Dark Ages brought on by the Roman Catholics suppressing the Bible and scientific inquiry.

Tell me brother, when you think of the early church, could you imagine the apostle Paul mumbling prayers in Latin and doing elaborate ceremonies, building huge, ornate churches, wearing gaudy vestments and baptizing babies? I think he'd look a lot more like John Wesley or Charles Finney, or someone like that.

I'm sure that if we could go back in time the apostles would look like protestants.


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Nigel Holland

 2020/10/22 20:18Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Tell me brother, when you think of the early church, could you imagine the apostle Paul mumbling prayers in Latin and doing elaborate ceremonies, building huge, ornate churches, wearing gaudy vestments and baptizing babies? I think he'd look a lot more like John Wesley or Charles Finney, or someone like that.

I'm sure that if we could go back in time the apostles would look like protestants.



brother, I am sharing a reply to your post not to win an argument but to show that we sometimes have not the full picture of church history.

A few thoughts regarding some of your statments above.

- The orthodox church (the prominent church in the first 1500+ years of the church) never had the service in any other language other then the main language of the bible. It was the catholic church only that hid the word of God under latin.

- John Wesley supported infant baptism. And along that same subject so did Martin Luther and almost every other protestant. It was a given in their day.

- The apostles and Jesus Christ wore robes (the wearing of a robe would be shocking enough to the mind of simple dressed evangelicals). Most all protestants wore some sort of clergy robe etc. The losing of this has only been recent and amongst some of the most progressive new groups that have started such as pentecostals etc.



But back to the main point of the thread, may God preserve modern believers who intepret and believe the Scriptures with the mind of God and according to the apostles teachings. Let us not waver with all the new waves of culture. We have 2000 years of faithful Christians behind us, may we not back down to a place of surrender to the spirit of the age.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2020/10/22 20:47Profile
deogloria
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Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 393


 Re:

We are now completely off topic...

I think I understand most of what drifter is saying.
To continue a constructive discussions we would need different threads, about The Orthodox church, The Reformation, Today's church etc.

 2020/10/22 23:57Profile









 Re:

BeginQuote:

Using this terminology "children of God" is dangerous as it is scriptural language towards those who are regenerate or renewed in their Spirit and adopted by the Gospel. Jesus clearly taught some are the children of the devil and some are of the children of God. Not "all" are children of God.

But protestants are children of Rome, the idea of inventing or changing the gospel constantly based on private interpretation. The question has to always go back what did the Apostles believe and what did the early Christians believe (who were taught by the Apostles). We cannot seek to re-interpret the Scriptures based on our current ever-changing world.

EndQuote:

Then:

BeginQuote:

We are now completely off topic...

I think I understand most of what drifter is saying.
To continue a constructive discussions we would need different threads, about The Orthodox church, The Reformation, Today's church etc.

EndQuote:

First thought:

I believe that what Greg posted to respond to the original OP has in it two very important principles. And his final comment here:

BeginQuote:

But back to the main point of the thread, may God preserve modern believers who intepret and believe the Scriptures with the mind of God and according to the apostles teachings. Let us not waver with all the new waves of culture. We have 2000 years of faithful Christians behind us, may we not back down to a place of surrender to the spirit of the age.

EndQuote:

......draws both threads into visibility. The language of the Eastern Churches which are now called Orthodox churches was Middle Aramaic [Syriac] and Common Greek. As Greg shared - Latin subjugated or else hid the Scriptures. The wisdom I believe is that in our time we can see this distinction in clear visibility both in the East and in the West.

So the lesson is that we must hold onto the truth that we have of the apostolic teachings [New Testament Letters] and by direction their disciples and their disciples also. The issue of homosexuality does not come into focus in the Gospels. It comes into focus in the churches and in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

So for prophetic wisdom let me quote a Scripture:

Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” So Peter seeing him said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” Jesus said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!” Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?”

ܡܫܚܐ

 2020/10/23 4:44





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