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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Transcending of the Ascended One (On Genuine Prophetic Ministry): The Prophet and the Beast

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MichaelLiao
Member



Joined: 2011/4/24
Posts: 210
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Hello Brother rhuomai,

Greetings and grace to you, brother. Yes, I had written this piece. Although I must admit that much of my theology and ecclesiology is heavily influenced by men like Watchman Nee and T. Austin-Sparks on the Centrality of Christ, so some of their language comes out in my writings. Also, some other sermons on this platform have influenced me as well.

I see that you have a comment about my post and how there may be a schism. Would you mind sharing with me your perspective, brother? I'd love to hear from you and your input.

Your Servant in Jesus' Name,

- Michael Liao


_________________
Michael Liao

 2020/10/16 22:26Profile
rhuomai
Member



Joined: 2020/7/31
Posts: 62


 Re:

The schism is a simple one. And like all schisms its outward and visible form hides or covers up its true effect. As we are concerned for the churches then it is the hidden effect that truly concerns us.

Are you a prophet Michael? None of the men you listed 'Art Katz, Watchman Nee, T. Austin-Sparks, Paul Washer, Leonard Ravenhill' called themselves prophets. It is true that they spoke or else still speak in prophetic terms and do/did so in the mantle of a watchman. Yet the watchman is not a prophet. It is but a characteristic of the prophetic office and a herald of the coming prophetic ministry. Their words were/are warnings and the warnings have been rejected by many. So when the prophetic ministry comes into the churches it will not be a gentle and lovely man - rather a consuming fire.

If you are going to assert what the prophetic office is to the churches then your words need to be tempered with revelation as to what it is that is coming upon the churches. And to that meaning here brother, I mean in the US in particular.

So to the visible schism.

From here:

BeginQuote:

“These leftists are terrible people with their immoral agendas, they will fry. These right-wing people are hypocrites, judgmental, legalistic, they will fry.” This is what we have reduced prophetic ministry down to. We invoke the name of God to justify our hatred of the other, instead of allowing the Cross to break us down and unite us into resurrection as the Ascended One New (corporate) Man.

From another place:

I have often heard Christians say that the Judgment of God is coming to America because of homosexuality and abortion. As if these are the only two sins that are enough to bring down Wrath. What about Judgment for slavery? Racism against blacks? What about the sex abuses that happen in our own churches? Or the Ashley Madison scandal which many Evangelicals seem to be quiet about? I hear John MacArthur saying that gay marriage and abortion are the two greatest terrorist attacks against America. But I hardly hear anything in the church that addresses racial injustice and how God's judgment should fall on such sin. What about White Privilege? What about the sexual abuse against the hundreds of women that happened in the Southern Baptist Convention? When Beth Moore called out the SBC for the abuse, John MacArthur tells her to "go home." Perhaps the judgment of God is not coming because of homosexuality or abortion. Hypothetically speaking, if the judgment were to actually come, it's coming against Self-Righteous White-Privileged Evangelical Christians who think everyone else around them is going to hell except them! And if any judgment does come, it would be collective against a system. When God called Amos to preach the incoming judgment against Israel for neglecting the poor and engaging in injustice, it was the call for "systemic repentance." Social justice is never separate from the Gospel call because God cares for the downtrodden of society. Biblical social justice is not a call to far-left/socialist/communist policies. In today's sense, it is a call to repent of our own collective biases towards the Black Community - a community downtrodden through police brutality and systemic racism. It is a call to listen to our Black brothers and sisters. To weep with those who weep. To work towards racial reconciliation. It is to leave the 99 sheep and go after the one who is broken.

EndQuote:


In Christ
ܡܫܚܐ

 2020/10/17 7:46Profile
MichaelLiao
Member



Joined: 2011/4/24
Posts: 210
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Brother rhoumai,

Thank you for your response to my post. I appreciate your insight into some of the characteristics of a prophet that I had missed out in my piece with regard to the warnings. Yes, prophets give warnings when there is a dire condition that needs to be rectified in the people of God and involves a call back to His Central Revelation. So I understand why you felt the schism between what I had written here and what I had written in the past, which I will address later in this response. I admit that I have my failures in this piece, so maybe I can compensate for some of it here. Even then, I realize that someone can always find something wrong with what I say and know that this response is not a perfect one. We're all still learning as a process.

Now, I would like to mention the purpose of why I had written this. It was actually a response to what I have observed in the charismatic circles where this gift has been horribly abused and reduced down to "Who's going to win the election? What is God saying about our nation's politics? Is God judging our nation because we've not sided with Israel on certain issues?" And then the commercial comes along saying, "For only $40, you can get this DVD on prophetic insights of America's future...." or "Take our 3 bestselling books, make them a collection and offer them for just $27." and so forth. Do not get me wrong, I'm all for the gifts of the Spirit manifesting supernaturally. Like Brother William who had posted here, I do praise and pray in the unknown tongue from time to time. I'm just grieved over how the Spirit is being trifled in these circles that the true revelation of Christ is not seen. The gifts are not the end, but a means to the end who is Christ Himself. And if these gifts are used to uphold corrupt men in places of power instead of displaying the compassion and justice of God to the broken and sinners alike, then we've missed the corporate expression in some way.

To answer your question, I am no prophet. God forbid I should call myself that. And nowhere in this piece did I claim to be a prophet. But, just because I am no prophet, does not mean I cannot speak on what the characteristics of a prophet should entail, especially in the New Covenant dispensation that we live in. It does not mean that I cannot make a comparison based on my observation between an Art Katz and someone in the charismatic circles who is spewing nonsense and engaging in a sort of self-glorification. Who apparently says things like, "God will use Donald Trump to bring revival onto America again....God is using Donald Trump to win against leftists." A politician? The people that I think of in terms of revival are the Brainerds, the Spurgeons, the Nees, the Sparks; people who were considered fools in the eyes of the world, yet precious in the eyes of God! If someone said, "God will use Joe Biden to bring revival onto America again...he will win the war against conservatives", I'd be just as horrified! Because we are using this so-called "prophetic" to elevate a man rather than point back to the Centrality of Christ, the One Who actually saves, and the One Who is the sum of all things spiritual as Watchman Nee would've put it. We've made a flawed man or a political party into a saviour without realizing it. We've made the prophetic into a guessing game rather than genuine revelation from the Heart of God which speaks in the Person of Jesus Christ. The Spirit only has one job, and that is to glorify the Son. And in glorifying the Son, we actually have the revelation of the Cross applied to us where not only our human perceptions of God are crucified, but so does our perceptions of each other. We are living more polarized than before as we are making black and white judgments of each other. And to use the prophetic ministry as a means of demonizing the other is simply blasphemous because we've decided to devalue the image of God in people with whom we have disagreements. "Oh you're a liberal, my oh my you must be a snowflake, SJW, triggered libtard...." "You're a conservative...you must be a racist xenophobe gun-lover...."

This is not just in the world, we're seeing it in our own churches. The prophetic call of the Cross frees us from such pettiness and stereotypes where we don't seem to see the Christ within the other. Where we can't seem to understand where the other person is coming from. Perhaps the warning now is to come out of the labels, come out of the political idols we've made, and come unto the Ascended One who Reigns with all authority, and through His Life in us, we demonstrate the Love of God to a dying world that has yet to see it. Because in removing/crucifying the labels and human limitations we've placed onto God, the greater the Vision of Christ, and therefore a greater Vision of each other as The One Body with Many Members (1 Corinthians 12:12). This is the reason why I said prophetic ministry under the Vision of Christ transcends all because it CALLS ALL. But, that's not my prophetic word nor me proclaiming to be a prophet. That's just how I understand the Cross in my experience. The Cross alone is prophetic and is a stumbling block to many because how many really want to give up their egos?

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28). In the modern sense, there is neither Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, or some strange animal in between, but Christ is all and in all.

That's the power of the Cross!

It doesn't mean you can't have political opinions or that God doesn't allow us to vote. It just means you are not ultimately defined by them in terms of your identity. I've voted for both Conservative and Liberal in my life. Just because I lean left on certain issues, doesn't mean I love the devil. I also have my conservative views on sexual ethics, marriage, and abortion. But, it seems in our world today, "You're either on this side, or that side! No compromise!" when things are not as black and white as they seem. And when we treat each other with such vitriol, it seems we may not be expressing the grace of God to each other. Rather, we're the ones attempting to play God by offering condemnation to each other. Therefore, our current behaviour is just an expression of missing the Cross of Christ Jesus.

Which brings me to the schism that you had mentioned about my current article and the letter I had written with regards to Black Lives Matter. How on earth did I on one hand talk about a unity of all in Christ while at the same time seemingly blasting the conservative church for their sins? Aren't I engaging in the same behaviour as these charismatics who blast liberals? Aren't I calling down judgment like a prophet? However, I would've appreciated if you had actually quoted the whole letter. To simply quote that paragraph would easily characterize me as some radical liberal attacking the conservative church. But, if you had seen the context of the whole letter, it was a consideration for another perspective. The perspective that the Black community is hurting and that the church can be a vessel of compassion towards them. To hear their cry. The point I wanted to drive was that if we the church only call out two sins as enough to bring down God's judgment, are we then considering other sins in our society or within our churches less problematic? Should we not then call down judgment on all sins equally? If not, then somehow we are picking and choosing what is sin and what is not sin, thereby engaging in hypocrisy. That's why I wrote the words "Hypothetically speaking, if the judgment were to actually come...." I was writing in hypotheticals because I am no prophet. I don't know if any judgment is to come in the next month, days, or 5 years, I don't have the ability to predict these things. My job currently is just to preach the Gospel to my Uber customers and show them the grace of God. I drive Uber in case you are wondering. But, the point is if the judgment is coming in some way that I do not understand, then hypothetically it should be against all sins, including hypocrisy: something Jesus was really harsh with in the Gospels. It should come like the way Amos describes it because we are either actively or passively engaging in injustice. But, again, I don't know if that will happen. It's hypothetical. And if you had quoted the next paragraph I had written after the one you quoted, I wrote:

["Racial wealth-gap, police brutality, slavery, redlining - that's not a call to socialism. It's a call to empathy! I know some will scream, "Socialism!" when the reality is it's a call to realize that Black people are simply saying, "Hey, I'm just like you. Please treat me as such. Sure my skin looks different from yours, but I want my place at the table as well and share with you as a fellow human being - created in the Image of God. I'm no less than you are. Please hear my cry. Please understand where I am coming from. I don't want to live in fear. Fear of you, fear of the police, fear of anyone. I don't want to be perceived differently just because I'm black. My skin colour doesn't determine behaviour whether good or bad. I want to have what you have - liberty and life." Equality is not far-left. From a biblical perspective, it's saying "You and I are God's image-bearers. Let us treat each other as such." Unfortunately, those who cry "socialism" in the church are a part of the problem. They are not the solution because it shows how far from reality they are as they do not understand the pain of Black people and what they experience on a daily basis."]

Thus, I don't believe you've characterized me fairly by just quoting one paragraph from my letter. The whole letter was written from a place of understanding the pain of what the Black community goes through and what my friends in the Black community have experienced. To place ourselves in their shoes for once and to see from their eyes the injustice that they face. It was simply a call to empathy. It was written from a place of sadness and knowing how God Himself weeps over the destruction of human lives in the name of injustice. And if you read the subsequent conversations that I had with Brother Fletcher and Todd, you would understand that though we had our disagreements, we acknowledged each other as brothers on the other side, striving for righteousness, and not as labels to be destroyed but as humans created in the Image of God - worthy of respect and honour. That's the power of the Cross - regardless of where we stand. This is should not even be labeled a left/right issue. This is an issue where human lives are at stake and if we the Church can't seem to address this injustice (all the while constantly obsessing over homosexuality and abortion), then we've failed in our compassion because we've failed to weep over every sin that sullies the glory of God and hurts his creation on a large scale. Yes, the prophet warns of judgment. But, in doing so, he weeps in compassion and travails like Jeremiah.

Therefore, all we can do is be present with Christ. No matter what the future holds, whether a prophecy comes true or not, are we faithful to Christ in the NOW? When John Wesley was asked, “Mr. Wesley, what will you do if Jesus were to come back tomorrow?” Most Christians would probably respond by saying, “Yikes! I’d be getting on my knees, confessing every sin I know of, and cry out to God in panic mode!” But, not Wesley. He just gave a calm reply, “I’ll be doing whatever God’s been calling me to do this whole time. I’ll do my devotions in the morning, serve in the orphanage, work on the hymnbooks with my brother Charles, etc.” In other words, Wesley was just being faithful and being present. He was ready for Judgment Day. I think the true Christian does not fear Jesus’s coming. I think the true Christian wants Jesus’s coming! We never know what will happen tomorrow. Maybe all the human progress will go down the drain in the bat of an eye. I don’t know. I am no prophet of doom. I don't know which school of eschatology is true. But, in the meantime, be faithful with what you have now. Maybe that’s what truly matters....

Your Servant in Jesus' Name,

- Michael Liao


_________________
Michael Liao

 2020/10/18 1:32Profile
rhuomai
Member



Joined: 2020/7/31
Posts: 62


 Re: The Transcending of the Ascended One (On Genuine Prophetic Ministry): The Prophet

Dear Brother,

Piece by piece then!

BeginQuote:

Now, I would like to mention the purpose of why I had written this. It was actually a response to what I have observed in the charismatic circles where this gift has been horribly abused and reduced down to "Who's going to win the election? What is God saying about our nation's politics? Is God judging our nation because we've not sided with Israel on certain issues?" And then the commercial comes along saying, "For only $40, you can get this DVD on prophetic insights of America's future...." or "Take our 3 bestselling books, make them a collection and offer them for just $27." and so forth. Do not get me wrong, I'm all for the gifts of the Spirit manifesting supernaturally. Like Brother William who had posted here, I do praise and pray in the unknown tongue from time to time. I'm just grieved over how the Spirit is being trifled in these circles that the true revelation of Christ is not seen. The gifts are not the end, but a means to the end who is Christ Himself. And if these gifts are used to uphold corrupt men in places of power instead of displaying the compassion and justice of God to the broken and sinners alike, then we've missed the corporate expression in some way.

EndQuote:

Your purpose in writing, as you have illuminated, is a simple thing to understand. Yet so is the answer to your consternation. Ignore it brother.

The trifling of the things of God by those who take the name of Christ and speak to presidents are best left with presidents and with God.

One thing you may wish to consider, seeing that you are found in faith by the ministry of brother Nee, is to ask the Lord how the latent power of the soul (which Nee speaks into very well) corresponds to the flesh of sorcery (Gal 5:20) as a fruit of the flesh and how that is the essential character of the charismatic churches in some great measure and amounts to sorceric babblers and fortune-tellers. The inclination of many brethren to speak into the future is driven by the power of the flesh, seeing that the charismatic churches have laid hold of a great perception that speaks of the coming kingdom, and not of the time we now live in, where the kingdom is within, yet must necessarily flow from us as living streams. It is a seeing that which lies ahead when Christ returns and applying this meaning boastfully today. I would that I could say that in resisting this blasphemy for nearly four decades that our charismatic brethren are humbled when their ill effects are presented to them before their eyes - unfortunately all I have seen is a desire to flee in a claim that we all sin. So when I have said that we do indeed all sin yet God will begin to judge the pastor and the elder and the prophet in the sight of the church they once again refuse even the evidence of their ill effects and go back into blasphemy. Unless the Lord has raised you up to bring these effects to the pit then leave them alone. You will only be caught up in an endless consternation of deceit from the very table at which you eat and break bread.


BeginQuote:

To answer your question, I am no prophet. God forbid I should call myself that. And nowhere in this piece did I claim to be a prophet. But, just because I am no prophet, does not mean I cannot speak on what the characteristics of a prophet should entail, especially in the New Covenant dispensation that we live in. It does not mean that I cannot make a comparison based on my observation between an Art Katz and someone in the charismatic circles who is spewing nonsense and engaging in a sort of self-glorification. Who apparently says things like, "God will use Donald Trump to bring revival onto America again....God is using Donald Trump to win against leftists." A politician? The people that I think of in terms of revival are the Brainerds, the Spurgeons, the Nees, the Sparks; people who were considered fools in the eyes of the world, yet precious in the eyes of God! If someone said, "God will use Joe Biden to bring revival onto America again...he will win the war against conservatives", I'd be just as horrified! Because we are using this so-called "prophetic" to elevate a man rather than point back to the Centrality of Christ, the One Who actually saves, and the One Who is the sum of all things spiritual as Watchman Nee would've put it. We've made a flawed man or a political party into a saviour without realizing it. We've made the prophetic into a guessing game rather than genuine revelation from the Heart of God which speaks in the Person of Jesus Christ. The Spirit only has one job, and that is to glorify the Son. And in glorifying the Son, we actually have the revelation of the Cross applied to us where not only our human perceptions of God are crucified, but so does our perceptions of each other. We are living more polarized than before as we are making black and white judgments of each other. And to use the prophetic ministry as a means of demonizing the other is simply blasphemous because we've decided to devalue the image of God in people with whom we have disagreements. "Oh you're a liberal, my oh my you must be a snowflake, SJW, triggered libtard...." "You're a conservative...you must be a racist xenophobe gun-lover...."

EndQuote:

You did speak on what the characteristics of the prophet should entail and yet you did not speak of the prophet. You spoke of men who were/are watchmen. Whereas the characteristic which you say Nee upheld is a characteristic that all believers should lay hold of by laying hold of Christ. Are all believers prophets?

If the character of these brethren who have placed themselves into the way of the prophetic ministry seems foolish to you then perhaps that is because you despise their ambitions. No Biden supporter is going to raise the flag of Christ and make prophetic utterances. So neither then the prophetic utterances of the Trump supporter can produce truth. Besides these prophetic babblers are at best misusing a prophetic gift that all believers should desire, yet they do it so well that they make of themselves seeming prophets. They are neither prophets nor yet are they walking in the simplicity of the gift of prophecy. William demonstrated by the grace of God what the gift of prophecy is like when a believer desiring a new work of God in their lives is suddenly moved to speak outside their own minds - and yet when asked in his reasonable mind what he has said - he is able to speak prophetically and in a clear meaning that which did not contradict the utterance over which he found no escape from speaking.

BeginQuote:

This is not just in the world, we're seeing it in our own churches. The prophetic call of the Cross frees us from such pettiness and stereotypes where we don't seem to see the Christ within the other. Where we can't seem to understand where the other person is coming from. Perhaps the warning now is to come out of the labels, come out of the political idols we've made, and come unto the Ascended One who Reigns with all authority, and through His Life in us, we demonstrate the Love of God to a dying world that has yet to see it. Because in removing/crucifying the labels and human limitations we've placed onto God, the greater the Vision of Christ, and therefore a greater Vision of each other as The One Body with Many Members (1 Corinthians 12:12). This is the reason why I said prophetic ministry under the Vision of Christ transcends all because it CALLS ALL. But, that's not my prophetic word nor me proclaiming to be a prophet. That's just how I understand the Cross in my experience. The Cross alone is prophetic and is a stumbling block to many because how many really want to give up their egos?

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28). In the modern sense, there is neither Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, or some strange animal in between, but Christ is all and in all.

That's the power of the Cross!

It doesn't mean you can't have political opinions or that God doesn't allow us to vote. It just means you are not ultimately defined by them in terms of your identity. I've voted for both Conservative and Liberal in my life. Just because I lean left on certain issues, doesn't mean I love the devil. I also have my conservative views on sexual ethics, marriage, and abortion. But, it seems in our world today, "You're either on this side, or that side! No compromise!" when things are not as black and white as they seem. And when we treat each other with such vitriol, it seems we may not be expressing the grace of God to each other. Rather, we're the ones attempting to play God by offering condemnation to each other. Therefore, our current behaviour is just an expression of missing the Cross of Christ Jesus.

EndQuote:

Seeing Christ in others, if we mean the new creature, is lost to sight when we are divisive. And so it becomes an easy thing to see only the flesh of others and to miss the new man and thereby we miss Christ. Yet even if we see Christ and always see Christ we cannot remove from seeing the flesh of men and knowing that it is contrary to the Spirit and is always contrary to the Spirit if we claim to have a prophetic ministry. It is a wrong emphasis to say that the entirety of the prophetic ministry is to see Christ. Christ came to reveal the Father and the true prophet comes in the authority of the Father to do the Fathers will. The Spirit was sent to reveal Christ. So if we speak of a gift of prophecy then let it be a gift that speaks of Christ. But if we say we are a prophet then let us be certain that the Father has appointed us to that office to bring all things under His feet - including a disobedient house.

To demonstrate the love of God to a dying world is an ambition to bring all men to Christ. In this hour the prophet must also prepare to bring men to judgement in our time by speaking of a coming revival of the saints so that in the end there will be no excuse when the Lord comes and makes the kingdoms of the earth, the kingdom of heaven and these same brethren are cast out into darkness. You are right of course - you did not claim to be a prophet - but neither do you understand in the least part what that ministry is. Perhaps it would be simpler to go back to evangelism and leave the contentions for those who are called to contend. Of course I am simply giving you my view. Neither do you appear to be disturbed by anything I have alluded to.


BeginQuote:

Which brings me to the schism that you had mentioned about my current article and the letter I had written with regards to Black Lives Matter. How on earth did I on one hand talk about a unity of all in Christ while at the same time seemingly blasting the conservative church for their sins? Aren't I engaging in the same behaviour as these charismatics who blast liberals? Aren't I calling down judgment like a prophet? However, I would've appreciated if you had actually quoted the whole letter. To simply quote that paragraph would easily characterize me as some radical liberal attacking the conservative church. But, if you had seen the context of the whole letter, it was a consideration for another perspective. The perspective that the Black community is hurting and that the church can be a vessel of compassion towards them. To hear their cry. The point I wanted to drive was that if we the church only call out two sins as enough to bring down God's judgment, are we then considering other sins in our society or within our churches less problematic? Should we not then call down judgment on all sins equally? If not, then somehow we are picking and choosing what is sin and what is not sin, thereby engaging in hypocrisy. That's why I wrote the words "Hypothetically speaking, if the judgment were to actually come...." I was writing in hypotheticals because I am no prophet. I don't know if any judgment is to come in the next month, days, or 5 years, I don't have the ability to predict these things. My job currently is just to preach the Gospel to my Uber customers and show them the grace of God. I drive Uber in case you are wondering. But, the point is if the judgment is coming in some way that I do not understand, then hypothetically it should be against all sins, including hypocrisy: something Jesus was really harsh with in the Gospels. It should come like the way Amos describes it because we are either actively or passively engaging in injustice. But, again, I don't know if that will happen. It's hypothetical. And if you had quoted the next paragraph I had written after the one you quoted, I wrote:

["Racial wealth-gap, police brutality, slavery, redlining - that's not a call to socialism. It's a call to empathy! I know some will scream, "Socialism!" when the reality is it's a call to realize that Black people are simply saying, "Hey, I'm just like you. Please treat me as such. Sure my skin looks different from yours, but I want my place at the table as well and share with you as a fellow human being - created in the Image of God. I'm no less than you are. Please hear my cry. Please understand where I am coming from. I don't want to live in fear. Fear of you, fear of the police, fear of anyone. I don't want to be perceived differently just because I'm black. My skin colour doesn't determine behaviour whether good or bad. I want to have what you have - liberty and life." Equality is not far-left. From a biblical perspective, it's saying "You and I are God's image-bearers. Let us treat each other as such." Unfortunately, those who cry "socialism" in the church are a part of the problem. They are not the solution because it shows how far from reality they are as they do not understand the pain of Black people and what they experience on a daily basis."]

EndQuote:

Let the prophets blast the conservative church for their sins brother. The conservative brethren all shrink back when they do. If you do it, then they will mock you. On the other hand you tell me that a seeming 'blast' is not a blast because it is contextualised. Hypocrisy cannot ever be contextualised else it is not hypocrisy. So neither can you contextualise the prophetic ministry.

BeginQuote:

Thus, I don't believe you've characterized me fairly by just quoting one paragraph from my letter. The whole letter was written from a place of understanding the pain of what the Black community goes through and what my friends in the Black community have experienced. To place ourselves in their shoes for once and to see from their eyes the injustice that they face. It was simply a call to empathy. It was written from a place of sadness and knowing how God Himself weeps over the destruction of human lives in the name of injustice. And if you read the subsequent conversations that I had with Brother Fletcher and Todd, you would understand that though we had our disagreements, we acknowledged each other as brothers on the other side, striving for righteousness, and not as labels to be destroyed but as humans created in the Image of God - worthy of respect and honour. That's the power of the Cross - regardless of where we stand. This is should not even be labeled a left/right issue. This is an issue where human lives are at stake and if we the Church can't seem to address this injustice (all the while constantly obsessing over homosexuality and abortion), then we've failed in our compassion because we've failed to weep over every sin that sullies the glory of God and hurts his creation on a large scale. Yes, the prophet warns of judgment. But, in doing so, he weeps in compassion and travails like Jeremiah.

EndQuote:

Dear brother I was not trying to characterise you at all. How can I do that Michael? I do not know you?

And yet this paragraph from your reply perhaps reveals something you would wish to consider. You say that Jeremiah wept. Well he certainly did weep. Did you know that God told him not to pray for His people and that if he did He would not listen?

It's a bit late for the church to get into empathetic intelligence if by that claim we intend to convince others that being sensitive is worthwhile. Sensitivity is a two edged sword. If we seem careful and loving with those who are oppressed it is in order to tell them the truth that they are wretched sinners deserving of hell. If we are careful with the oppressed in speech so as to give the oppressor a measure of their failing then we may find that we are striking ourselves when the oppressor is of the same house as we are. Unless the Father has called you to take His house to task then I would remove yourself from it and weep yourself knowing that you will be despised, and yet you love as Christ has loved.

May the Lord bless you dear brother and may your Uber journeys be filled with the fruit of repentant sinners for the glory of God and Christ.

In Christ
ܡܫܚܐ



 2020/10/18 6:53Profile
MichaelLiao
Member



Joined: 2011/4/24
Posts: 210
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Yes, brother. I know of the book The Latent Power of the Soul. I have yet to read it, but have been interested in it for a long time. From what I remember Brother Art Katz had mentioned about the book in his sermon "A Man in Whom the Spirit of God is".

"I think we all need to heed a book that is rarely read. I was probably not ready for it when I picked it up a few years ago. It said nothing to me at that time. It is saying much more to me now. The book is called, The Latent Power of the Soul by Watchman Nee. How prophetic this book is! Before the advent of the first electronic amplifier, Nee suggested that one of the greatest menaces for the children of God at the end of the age would be that soulish realm of activity that emulates, imitates, counterfeits, and gives every appearance of being the realm of the Spirit. He mentions that there is something about music itself that has inherent possibilities for danger. Of all people and of all generations, we need the sharpest kind of sensitivity and discernment to be able to distinguish between that which is soulish and that which is spiritual." -Art Katz, A Man in Whom the Spirit of God is: http://artkatzministries.org/articles/a-man-in-whom-the-spirit-of-god-is/

Yes, there is a lot of soulish behaviour that looks spiritual, but is far from the Centrality of Christ. Indeed, Brother Nee was onto something when he warned of this kind of manifestation in our modern churches. I appreciate your response brother. I admit that as I look back at my posts, there is always something missing or perhaps contradictory. I do have my biases and as I look back, it did come out in the letter as a rebuke to the conservative church, though written in a hypothetical fashion. So I understand your meaning of the term schism. I must admit my lack of honesty on that part. I think any kind of injustice we see in the world breaks the heart of God and he calls out to us through the Revelation of the Cross to return to Him. The Cross that not only refuses to see boundaries but eliminates them all together in Christ Jesus. Perhaps I still have much to learn about the prophet and what that ministry truly entails. My only goal is to only encourage us all to see the Manifestation of the Corporate Christ and hope for a greater unity among the saints. That's my hope. To see the Love of Christ which looks beyond our denominational and political spectrums. An organic Body ready to be made manifest in these dark times. Maybe that's the bigger picture of what I meant. To see Christ. Just like those men I had mentioned - Christ and Him Crucified.

Part of my problem is that in my past posts and this current one, my motives were not always pure. I do want to see a change in the Body of Christ where genuine divine love is expressed. I wish for communication where humility is seen between all of us. But, at the same time, I know how I am. I know my own biases that come out in my writings. My own political leanings that I myself need to be called out of to the Cross. Even to the point where I've covered my political leanings with Evangelical terms. I know my need for seeking human attention and approval, or to even pick a fight with someone online. I praise God that I'm going to Christian therapy to deal with this and other personal traumas. In the meantime, I can only leave this conversation here. I don't think I'm ready to engage in online conversations yet and may need to step back for a while. But, I pray the Lord will keep you at this time as you continue to behold Him.

In Christ Jesus our Lord,

- Michael Liao


_________________
Michael Liao

 2020/10/18 15:49Profile
rhuomai
Member



Joined: 2020/7/31
Posts: 62


 Re:

Thank you brother Michael. That was a humbling response and a great testimony to Christ. Some of what you have shared about yourself I can see in my own flesh also. I can also see the hand of Nee in your manner and use of words. That much at least we can both receive with ease. Nee has been the most persistent influence in my life outside of the Lord Himself. So thankful that his ministry was put into my hands within a few hours of being saved. That was the Lord's hand and I have always been grateful that I wrestled with that first book until I could understand it in the spirit in which it was written.

May the Lord bless you brother and open your heart to find His rest.

In Christ
ܡܫܚܐ

 2020/10/18 16:25Profile
MichaelLiao
Member



Joined: 2011/4/24
Posts: 210
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

You're very welcome, Brother Rhoumai. I did not want to admit the schism and I realize how crafty my ego can be in attempting to defend myself. I've had my painful history with the Conservative Evangelical Church and it comes out in my interactions with people. There was some hypocrisy I noticed that made me feel disillusioned. But, I'm also aware how my pride would like the attention and try to be a prophet. Attempting to be a hero because of my own inferiority complex. It's very easy for me to try to cover up my true intentions. But, I'd rather be honest about where I am and admit that I was dishonest with you when attempting to correct my schism between The Transcending of the Ascending One and the Letter I wrote regarding Black Lives Matter. I care deeply for the Black Community and was sad to see how some have responded to this from churches. I wrote that with brokenness, but also I wanted to send a rebuke to those who I felt turned a blind eye to this issue. When you said that a prophet comes with a warning, not as a gentle or loving man, I realized there was a schism between this current writing and what I had written about Amos and my take on judgment against the evangelical churches. I may not understand prophetic ministry well, but my main intention was for all of us to have our eyes set on Christ rather than man. Maybe then we'll have unity without the earthly labels we place on each other.

There's much for all of us to learn, especially myself. Therefore, I want to owe you my sincerest apology and ask for your forgiveness in saying that you did not fairly characterize me. I was clearly in the wrong and I could've handled the conversation by trying to understand where you were coming from and extending more grace to you. At the end of the day, you were correct, we really don't know each other and especially on online forums, we cannot see or hear the intonations of the other person. I realize there are limitations to this form of communication. I'm also glad to hear that Brother Watchman Nee's ministry was of great benefit to you, brother. Especially hours after you were converted. His works have been helping me out of legalism for years and to live by Christ's Life. His works saved my life many times, brother. Times where I've wanted to give up on the faith, Nee's books brought the Spirit of Christ back to me.

I pray that you will rest in His grace as He carries you into His Heavenly Expression - found only in Christ Jesus our Lord. May you continually eat from the Tree of Life, Brother Rhoumai.

Your Servant in Jesus' Name,

- Michael Liao


_________________
Michael Liao

 2020/10/19 15:45Profile





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