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BranchinVINE
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 Daniel's Prophetic Visions


Hi David (Doc),

You wrote in another thread:

Quote:

Just last Wednesday, we finished going through the book of Daniel in our home group. If you study this book and have questions etc., I would be glad to share with you in any way I can. I come from a post-trib premillennial point of belief.
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=63348&forum=35




So, I am starting this thread to discuss Daniel’s prophetic visions.


You wrote:

Quote:
The return of the exiled nation to the land and its eventual messianic redemption at the end of this evil age was a prominent theme of the prophets. This end-time scenario is impossible without a Jewish presence in the land. Therefore, the latter-day return of a Jewish populace to the region known today as Palestine (formerly Canaan) and the reemergence of the modern state of Israel is one of the most significant prophetic signs to transpire since the resurrection of Christ.



Yet Daniel did not mention a second return of the Jews in his 70 Weeks prophecy. Much appreciate if you can give other scripture predicting this event.


Also,

Quote:
Daniel's 70th week cannot have already occurred since it ends with the resurrection of the dead which occurs at Christ's second coming.



Are you referring to Dan.12:2?


Thanks and Blessings


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Jade

 2020/9/1 10:58Profile
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 Re: Daniel's Prophetic Visions

I'm not trying to ignore you. I've just been busy. I'll try and make a reply soon.

Thank you.


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David Winter

 2020/9/2 15:51Profile
BranchinVINE
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 Re:


No worries, David. Thank you.


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Jade

 2020/9/3 1:14Profile
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 Re:


SCRIPTURE FOR THE SEVENTY WEEKS PROPHECY IN THE BOOK OF DANIEL


DAN. 9:24-27


NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE (NASB):

Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."



NEW KING JAMES VERSION (NKJV):

Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.

Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall, Even in troublesome times.

And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.



KING JAMES VERSION (KJV):

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.



YOUNG’S LITERAL TRANSLATION:

Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city, to shut up the transgression, and to seal up sins, and to cover iniquity, and to bring in righteousness age-during, and to seal up vision and prophet, and to anoint the holy of holies.

And thou dost know, and dost consider wisely, from the going forth of the word to restore and to build Jerusalem till Messiah the Leader is seven weeks, and sixty and two weeks: the broad place hath been built again, and the rampart, even in the distress of the times.

And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end is with a flood, and till the end is war, determined are desolations.

And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.



BRENTON SEPTUAGINT TRANSLATION:

Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people, and upon the holy city, for sin to be ended, and to seal up transgressions, and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for iniquities, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy.

And thou shalt know and understand, that from the going forth of the command for the answer and for the building of Jerusalem until Christ the prince there shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks; and then the time shall return, and the street shall be built, and the wall, and the times shall be exhausted.

And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint the city to desolations.

And one week shall establish the covenant with many: and in the midst of the week my sacrifice and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple shall be the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation.


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Jade

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 Re: One Foundational Point to Bear in Mind

"In an attempt to analyze and interpret prophecy correctly, many have employed the supposed necessity of transferring prophecy out of its original Jewish context into a more symbolic and spiritualized fulfillment in the Church. The same has been done with Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks. The rule seems to be that the original literal Jewish context must be rejected if any progress is to be made in prophetic interpretation."

"No interpretation of this prophecy which ignores the Jewish focus should be seriously considered. The nation of Israel was Daniel's concern at this point and the subject of his prayer. In the introduction to the prophecy Gabriel speaks of "your people and your holy city" and the "holy of holies" (qodesh qadashim), which is clearly and always in the Old Testament a reference to Israel's tabernacle or temple. The prophecy throughout employs such terms as "Jerusalem," "the city," "the sacrifice and the oblation," and "the many." The people and the city under discussion could not be more obvious, namely the nation Israel and her capital city, Jerusalem."

(From the article, "Daniel's Seventy Weeks - an Historical and Exegetical Analysis" - Fred Zaspel - 1991)

I concur with Brother Zaspel, and this is the view I take in any discussions regarding the book of Daniel or any of the other prophets.

Thanks. PTL.


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David Winter

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 Re:

//The people and the city under discussion could not be more obvious, namely the nation Israel and her capital city, Jerusalem."//

Does not a past fulfillment meet this requirement?


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Todd

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 The Re-establishing of the Jewish Daily Sacrifice

"The fulfillment of many prophecies of both testaments, depends upon the return of the Jews to their own land. And their return has been established by scripture beyond successful contradiction. And their return is plainly implied in these prophecies which speak of "the temple," "the holy place," "the sanctuary," "the daily sacrifice," etc., in connection with the Second Coming of Christ. Daniel 12:11 contains a prophecy of this kind, and reads thus: "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." This was spoken to Daniel about 534 years B.C. And in this verse we are informed, that 'the daily sacrifice shall be taken away:" if this taking away is yet future, the Jews must return to their own land, in order to re-establish it.; for the daily sacrifice has not been observed at any time since in the last 1800 years. Now, this taking away of the daily sacrifice NEAR THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST (emphasis docs), implies its re-establishment after the present time. The daily sacrifice will be taken away NEAR THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST (emphasis docs)."

(P.S.G. Watson - 1880)

I concur and agree with Watson and take this view in discussions regarding the book of Daniel and the 70 weeks prophecy.

Blessings.


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David Winter

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 Re:

//The people and the city under discussion could not be more obvious, namely the nation Israel and her capital city, Jerusalem."

Does not a past fulfillment meet this requirement?//

No, I don't believe so.

The best that can be said regarding the past is that types and partial fulfillments have occurred while a exhaustive and complete eschatological fulfillment still lies in the future. Daniel's overall context is speaking of events at the "time of the end" (Daniel 8:19; 11:35, 40;12:4,13.) "Time of the end" is a Hebraic phrase speaking of the very last eschatological events that occur at the culmination of this present evil age.

Also, these events end in the resurrection of the dead which occurs at the second advent of Christ. I remain positive that has not occurred yet.


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David Winter

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 Re:

If the abomination of desolation was the statue of Jupiter in the temple in Jerusalem placed there by Antiochus Epiphanes, why did Jesus prophesy about it in the future tense? Was He prophesying backwards?


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Nigel Holland

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 Re:

Nigel-

Compare these two versions of the same event:

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Matthew 24:15-16

“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luke 21:20-22

Jesus is talking about the same event in these two verses- the sacking of Jerusalem by Roman armies. This pagan army WAS the abomination Jesus was talking about. Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the temple during the time of the Maccabees by sacrificing a pig on the altar and the general Titus destroyed the temple and sported the lamp stand through the streets.

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/abomination-temple/


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Todd

 2020/9/3 17:57Profile





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