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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Baptismal Regeneration

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mynameisMark
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Joined: 2010/2/28
Posts: 14


 Re:

David & Nigel - thanks four your thoughtful replies.

"If you don't have this, ask Jesus for it. I can tell you from experience, He is good to His word."

I ask almost daily, but don't feel I have this peace. I will keep asking til I receive, though.

 2020/8/18 20:38Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 691
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

God bless you Mark. Remember Jesus said whoever asks receives.
I'll be praying for you.


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Nigel Holland

 2020/8/18 20:44Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 691
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

Ron, my position is that baptism is a sign that you are repenting and submitting to Christ. You could also paraphrase that verse "He that believes and repents shall be saved."

I think believers are saved from being enslaved to sin, from serving the devil, and from going to hell when they die.


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Nigel Holland

 2020/8/18 20:50Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2764
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Nigel,

Thanks for your reply. I believe that believing and repenting are two sides of the same coin but I don't think we have the authority to change that verse to say anything other than "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved..."

One other thought, I find it significant that Jews, Muslims, and Hindu's don't really have a problem with someone believing in their heart; but once they are baptized the persecution begins.

In Christ,


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Ron Halverson

 2020/8/19 18:35Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5588
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 Re:

In the very early church there was no gap between believing and being baptized— so much so that they were practically synonymous- as in Mark 16:16.

In other words, it was unheard of that a believer would not also be baptized (except in extreme circumstances like the thief on the cross). That is a modern day problem.


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Todd

 2020/8/19 19:53Profile
drifter
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 691
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

Just to clarify, according to the Bible a believer should be baptized if he or she can. I believe that. I also take communion. I value the two ordinances set out in the New Testament.

After the time of the apostles, formalism crept into the church. Priests and theologians twisted the scriptures, and salvation according to them was nothing more than eating a wafer and drinking juice, or being dunked in water. Augustine said that even if a drunken heretic baptized a baby it would be saved from hell (he believed if babies weren't baptized they went to hell, or purgatory) because of the faith of the church. (I'm not knocking Augustine, but come on.)

Just talk to your average church member and see if I'm lying. They've been baptized, taken communion etc. but talk to them about knowing God and they think you are speaking another language.

How about the first part of that verse (Mark16:16)? People always stress the baptism part, but do they truly believe?


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Nigel Holland

 2020/8/19 23:07Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5588
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 Re:

I agree that belief is a prerequisite for baptism. Why would an unbeliever want to be baptized? I guess lots of reasons- peer pressure, “fire insurance” etc.

“Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.“
Acts 2:41

Did Peter and the disciples do in depth interviews to determine if the 3000 truly accepted the message before baptizing them? We don’t know- we aren’t told that but I doubt it.

Their profession of faith and willingness to be baptized was all that was needed.

Baptism alone cannot save anyone. But any person who is truly saved and accepts Jesus as Lord will want to follow his commands and therefore should want to be baptized. It seems like in the days of the early church it was easier- if you got saved you got baptized in about .2 seconds. Now there might be months before a church has their next baptism service.


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Todd

 2020/8/20 7:41Profile
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Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 691
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

The way I see it, any christian can baptize a new convert.


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Nigel Holland

 2020/8/20 16:29Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5588
NC, USA

 Re:

Yes indeed!


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Todd

 2020/8/20 17:04Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4526


 Re:

After I gave my life to the Lord, I pondered whether or not I needed to be re-baptized. As a youth, I was baptized before I was even truly believed in God (but went through with it because my mom wanted me to).

The week after I was saved, I had already read the entire Bible. The idea of baptism seemed important. Initially, I baptized myself in the bathtub. I was concerned that it wouldn't really count (since it wasn't "public"). So, I later was baptized outdoors by a man of God.

I did have questions about why God would choose something like baptism. I questioned why ordinances would be important in the first place. As others pointed out, you come to Christ before you are ever dunked in water.

When John the Baptist initially questioned the need to baptize Jesus, our Lord replied that he was doing it to "fulfill all righteousness."

Ordinances are interesting things. Most churches adhere to baptism and communion. As earthly beings who sometimes think that we know the mind of the Lord, we see things as "cause and effect" or "if" and "then."

However, there were ordinances that go back to the Old Covenant. For instance, the idea of a blood sacrifice doesn't seem to make a lot of sense -- especially when understand the omnipotent and omniscient nature of God.

Yet, the very first sacrifice on Earth was carried out by God himself -- when the LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and Eve to clothe them (Genesis 3:21). Prior to this, they had attempted to cover their nakedness by fastening an outfit by sewing fig leaves together (Genesis 3:7).

Apparently, the fig leaf clothes weren't enough. They told the LORD that they hid from him because they were "naked" (Genesis 3:10-11). So, God covered them -- and He used the skin of animals to do it.

I wonder if all ordinances are also a type and shadow. Baptism hearkens to the flood. Communion hearkens to the last Passover that our Lord celebrated with the disciples -- which, in turn, hearkens back to being saved from the final plague of death in Egypt.


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Christopher

 2020/8/20 23:34Profile





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