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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Scott Hynds " Should The Church Align Itself With The Black Lives Matter Movement "

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leyoung
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Joined: 2016/11/15
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 Re:

Yes brother Steve,
I watched the video a bit later after my first post.
What Scott said was very godly and in the spirit of love , exhortation and warning.
Thank you for posting.
L


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L Young

 2020/6/16 23:08Profile
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 Re:

Someone asked me if I believed "black lives matter" or if I preferred "all lives matter." I told them that I prefer neither.

I told them that I simply believe that YOU MATTER.

"You" matter to God -- no matter who you are or what you've done. Consequently, "you" matter to me.


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Christopher

 2020/6/17 0:38Profile
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Online!
 Re:


GOD MATTERS.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2020/6/17 5:52Profile
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 Brother Steve

Yes dear brother, you are correct and the scripture you posted indeed pricked my heart 🙏🏻

I confess and apologize for jumping to conclusions -

The message is very familiar actually, one that has become increasingly visible for some time now and the analogy that he used of being a distraction is what the Lord has shown me also... this whole thing seems to be an elaborate distraction. The fact that it doesn’t make sense simply makes it more effective as a distraction, as people “try to figure it out” they are tuned into it receiving its message and practicing its purpose, which is to condition or weaken us.

Early last week I became aware of a series of organized rally’s in cities across the US and Canada. These rally’s are being held by “Disciples of Lucifer” in an open display of just how in plain sight they can operate with the church doing much of nothing other than being distracted.
They have a message, a plan, and an invitation for all to join them.
It’s happening this weekend 6/21/20 and I believe they’re trying to “take these” cities spiritually and set up strongholds. Meanwhile most of the church is taking the bait and are patently distracted, not armoring up and doing battle against this advancement of our enemy onto our streets and towns...
please if you’re a member of the body of Christ, look into this and put down the distraction and take up the cause of Christ. Our passion will be tested by their resoluteness and the brothers and sisters in these cities where these rallies are being held need our help!

Again brother Steve, I’m sorry for jumping to conclusions and hope you can forgive me 🙏🏻


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Fletcher

 2020/6/17 8:32Profile
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 Re:

"GOD MATTERS."

Wow! That is what people should say any time they are approached with questions about this issue.


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Christopher

 2020/6/17 12:10Profile
savannah
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 Re: an unhloy trinity




Black Lives Matter (BLM) was founded by 3 women in 2013. The three women are:


Alicia Garza - born January 4, 1981

In her teens, Alicia engaged in activism, promoting school sex education about birth control.
In 2003 she met Malachi Garza, 24, who was a transsexual man and a community activist. In 2004 Alicia informed her family that she was gay. In 2008 Alicia married Malachi and took the name Garza, settling in Oakland. Malachi Larrabee-Garza is a San Francisco born, mixed race queer who has wanted to change the world for as long he can remember. He is a staff member for the TGI Justice Project. A group of transgender, gender variant and intersex people—inside and outside of prisons, jails and detention centers—creating a united family in the struggle for survival and freedom. Their mission is to work in collaboration with others to forge a culture of resistance and resilience to strengthen us for the fight against human rights abuses, imprisonment, police violence, racism, poverty, and societal pressures. They seek to create a world rooted in self- determination, freedom of expression, and gender justice. Malachi uses he/him pronouns.

Patrisse Cullors - born June 20, 1983

She identifies as a queer activist.
She was involved with the Jehovah's Witnesses as a child, but later grew disillusioned with the church.
Cullors recalls being forced from her home at 16 when she revealed her queer identity to her parents. She formed close connections with other young queer women who were dealing with the challenges of poverty and being Black and Brown in the USA. In an interview, Cullors has described herself and Alicia Garza as "trained marxists." She formed close connections with other young queer women who were dealing with the challenges of poverty and being Black and Brown in the USA. She is presently a professor at Arizona’s Prescott College where she teaches a course she created that examines, social practice, cultural work, and art impact on community organizing as part of the Social Justice & Community Organizing (SJCO) Master’s degree program which combines a unique focus on critical race theory, anti-colonial theory, feminist and queer theory, critical political economy, and third world liberation theory.
She is married to Janaya Khan, the co-founder of Black Lives Matter Canada. Khan identifies as black, queer, gender-nonconforming. 
Much of their work analyzes intersectional topics including the Black Lives Matter movement, queer theory, Black feminism, and organized protest strategies.


Opal Tometi - born August 15, 1984

Opal Tometi is one of the most influential human rights defenders of our time.  She holds a Masters degree in Communications and currently serves as a racial justice communications consultant. She was named among the 50 Most Influential People by Forbes and Cosmopolitan magazines, and has received glowing features in CNN, MSNBC, BBC, BET, Fortune, and Politico. She's married, but doesn't speak about her husband or children. Tometi relayed her story of being raised by Nigerian parents who immigrated to the United States, of her mother’s “fierce intellect,” and of her hard-working father, whom she called her “first true example of a feminist.”

 2020/6/18 11:58Profile
Sree
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 Re:

I am not someone who is for or against BLM. Nor am I someone who closes my eyes and believes that there is no racism in USA. Nor am I someone who closes his eyes on the loose life being lived by people of a particular race causing disruption in the country.

But the thing that bothers me here is. suppose this incident happened in an Islamic nation. A Muslim was pressing the neck of a Minority Christian guy, will all of us remain mute to it? Do we not get angry about the persecution of Christians? If someone gives a theory that the police officer was mentally challenged, still we will not trust that guy. If law enforcement of a nation is allowed to do this to a Christian guy, how badly should Christian be treated in this country!

But if this is not to a Christian, we do not take a stand, that is perfectly understandable, but claiming that no one should take a stand is something wrong. If we have the right to fight for a Christian then why not people for another race? I am not saying we should fight for their cause, but at least acknowledge the right for another to protest.

Again I am not condemning anyone here. I believe we Christians should pray and stand with those fellow Christians who suffer persecution for their faith.


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Sreeram

 2020/6/18 12:14Profile
MichaelLiao
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 Re: Scott Hynds " Should The Church Align Itself With The Black Lives Matter Mov

Dear Brother Steve Hale and to all on SermonIndex,

Grace to you and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ. I write to you all on SermonIndex because of my witness to the many views Christians have with regards to Black Lives Matter. I would like to give an alternative perspective on this matter and perhaps we can see our Black brothers and sisters who are suffering with compassion and grace; to acknowledge that their suffering is not merely perceived, but that it is a multigenerational trauma that has never healed. And I pray that this post would be communicated with much love and grace.

The reason this movement is called Black Lives Matter is that Black Americans feel that their lives do not matter in the hands of American society. To say that this is a far-left organization with socialist intentions is simply a misnomer. As someone who is Chinese Canadian living in the City of Toronto, I have had the privilege of mixing with different backgrounds and cultures. But, I must admit that though the racism in Canada may not be as blatant as what is portrayed in the States, it is much more subtle. Police violence against minorities happens here as well. I've known stories of black men who have been wrongfully arrested simply because "they fit a description". I have friends who have told me that they cannot wear regular/casual clothing because they don't want to be perceived as a "thug." So they decide to wear suits instead. As an Asian person, I have some level of privilege in terms of wearing casual clothes because I do not fit the unconscious cultural bias of what it means to be a thug - and unfortunately, that means a black person. It's sad. I remember one of my friends had asked me to pray for him years ago because he was heading to the States for a trip. This was after a police officer shot a black man to death (I forgot which shooting this was since there have been so many). My friend being a black gentleman was scared. I prayed for him, but I was worried about him.

Whenever I see people protesting BLM with signs that say "All Lives Matter," I agree. All Lives Do Matter. The problem is that in today's societies, Blacks Lives Don't. Imagine my house is on fire and I scream, "My house matters right now, please someone help me and put out this fire!" But, then someone comes along and says, "Well, all houses matter." I'd simply respond by saying, "Yes, but your house is not on fire, MINE IS!" And that's what the Black Community is crying out for because their community has been metaphorically set on fire for generations! It's dismissive to say All Lives Matter when there is a specific group of people who are being targeted simply because of the colour of their skin. For the Black Community, they wonder why it is such a crime to be Black. I have heard some Christians say, "It's not a race issue, it's a sin issue." Yes, sin is the root of all these problems. But, to say it's just a sin issue makes racial reconciliation impossible because it is a cop-out statement! It doesn't address the "specific sin" on a corporate level, which is racism. Systemic racism. When God judged the nation of Israel, he didn't just punish Achan. His whole family had to be punished. Why? Because the sin of Achan was a byproduct of the collective family (perhaps even his culture as well). When the Prophet Daniel was repenting of sin, it wasn't his individual sins. He repented on behalf of the nation of Israel. Because the sin was a collective/corporate/systemic issue in the eyes of God.

Slavery of Blacks in America only ended 155 years ago. There are Black individuals today who could testify to the fact that their Great Grandfather/Grandmother was a slave. It wasn't that far back when it ended. And the effects of slavery on the Black Community today are staggering. For centuries Blacks have worked for free on the plantations to grow White wealth. Wealth is intergenerational, and therefore it is passed down to the next generation. The last study I read was that for every dollar a Black Median Family has, a White Family has 13. Yes, all lives matter, but why are Blacks struggling financially and can't seem to get ahead like their White counterparts? But, the end of slavery wasn't the end of racism. There was Jim Crow in the South where Blacks and Whites couldn't use the same water fountain. Couldn't use the same washrooms. Lynchings of Blacks were frequent. It seemed that White people weren't happy that slavery ended, so they figured out other ways to keep Black People down. There was Redlining in the 1930s where neighbourhoods with minorities were deemed "undesirable" and therefore had limited access to government resources/bailout during the Great Depression. Today, Blacks have 20% longer prison sentences for the same crime that a White person commits. If that is not the definition of racism, I wonder what is... And now, we have police officers exercising their brutality on the Black Community. I would not be surprised if there are many undiagnosed cases of PTSD in the Black Community because of how much fear they live in. Unarmed black men and women stopped by the police, shot and/or physically beaten to death....just because they....went shopping! Or just going for a walk in the park (bird-watching) and a white woman calls the cops on an African-American individual because he simply asked a lady to put a leash on her dog. "I'm going to tell them (the police) that there's an African American man threatening my life." For a black man to hear that must be traumatizing. He must've wondered if the police would come and brutalize him. Police officers brutalizing black people over.....harmless situations.

The fear is real in the Black Community. For innocent black men, they walk around the streets wondering, "What if someone is following me? What if there's a police officer who will attack me? What if I get racially profiled?" And then the death of George Floyd seems to reinforce that trauma, that fear, that pain in the Black Community which cries out, "We went through slavery, we had Jim Crow, we're not financially doing well as Redlining still affects us negatively today, now this? When will we as Black folk ever get a break? Do we matter to you at all? Or are we only worthy of your knee of oppression? Am I less human because my skin is darker?" The knee that killed George Floyd is just a miniature sign to the Bigger Knee of American society that keeps Black people down. Colin Kaepernick took a knee during the American National Anthem at an NFL game to create awareness of police brutality against black people. And now we see the knee of revenge against George Floyd for 8 MINUTES AND 46 SECONDS! The man was crying for out for his dead mother, "MAMA!" "I CAN'T BREATHE!" There is no justification for this! This man didn't even resist arrest, and he was murdered in cold blood on video for millions to see. As comedian Dave Chappelle said, "What are you signifying? That you can kneel on a man's neck for 8 MINUTES AND 46 SECONDS and feel like you wouldn't get the Wrath of God!" DOES GEORGE FLOYD'S LIFE NOT MATTER? From a biblical perspective, he is a man created in the image of God and therefore is worthy of life, liberty, and respect. I mean forget the fact that he's Black - he's HUMAN! And now it seems his humanity is not real because he just happens to have dark skin.

I cry and weep for this. I'm not a black gentleman, I'm Chinese. But, I weep for this because a fellow human died at the hands of racial injustice. Sure, there are extreme elements in BLM. I don't question the fact that there are crazies on all sides of the matter. The ones who are looting are not really helpful to the cause of Black lives. But, the crazies don't take away from its original message, in the same way our theological differences don't take us away from the Centrality of Christ. The original message being that Black Lives Do Matter! Black Lives Should Matter! After generations of blatant or subtle oppression, they feel they have no place in this world. And they're crying out for justice. They are crying for that place where they can live in freedom.

Some will challenge me and say, "Well what about Black-on-Black crime? Why is there always news about a white cop shooting a black person?" Yes, I'm well aware of that. I'm also well aware of the fatherlessness in the Black Community and how that contributes to the pain of Black children. In fact, one of my friends from high school had a brother who was shot to death by two guys outside his Toronto neighbourhood. But, police officers are supposed to be held to a higher standard than gangs. They're cops! They're supposed to SERVE and PROTECT, not SEVER and PROFILE. Some will say George Floyd was a criminal and drug addict, and therefore got what he deserved. To be quite frank, I don't care what he has done. That doesn't deserve a knee to the neck for 8 MINUTES AND 46 SECONDS!

I have often heard from Christians say that the Judgment of God is coming to America because of homosexuality and abortion. As if these are the only two sins that are enough to bring down Wrath. What about Judgment for slavery? Racism against blacks? What about the sex abuses that happen in our churches? Or the Ashley Madison scandal which many Evangelicals seem to be quiet about? I hear John MacArthur saying that gay marriage and abortion are the two greatest terrorist attacks against America. But I hardly hear anything in the church that addresses racial injustice and that God's judgment should fall on such sin. What about White Privilege? What about the sexual abuse against the hundreds of women that happened in the Southern Baptist Convention? When Beth Moore called out the SBC for the abuse, John MacArthur tells her to "go home." Perhaps the judgment of God is not coming because of homosexuality or abortion. Hypothetically speaking, if the judgment is actually coming, it's coming against Self-Righteous White-Privileged Evangelical Christians who think everyone else around them is going to hell except them! And if any judgment comes, it would be collective against a system. When God called Amos to preach the incoming judgment against Israel for neglecting the poor and engaging in injustice, it was the call for "systemic repentance." Social justice is never separate from the Gospel call because God cares for the downtrodden of society. Biblical social justice is not a call to far-left/socialist/communist policies. In today's sense, it is a call to repent of our own collective biases towards the Black Community - a community downtrodden through police brutality and systemic racism. It is a call to listen to our Black brothers and sisters. To weep with those who weep. To work towards racial reconciliation. It is to leave the 99 sheep and go after the one who is broken.

Racial wealth-gap, police brutality, slavery, redlining - that's not a call to socialism. It's a call to empathy! I know some will scream, "Socialism!" when the reality is it's a call to realize that Black people are simply saying, "Hey, I'm just like you. Please treat me as such. Sure my skin looks different from yours, but I want my place at the table as well and share with you as a fellow human being - created in the Image of God. I'm no less than you are. Please hear my cry. Please understand where I am coming from. I don't want to live in fear. Fear of you, fear of the police, fear of anyone. I don't want to be perceived differently just because I'm black. My skin colour doesn't determine behaviour whether good or bad. I want to have what you have - liberty and life." Equality is not far-left. From a biblical perspective, it's saying "You and I are God's image-bearers. Let us treat each other as such." Unfortunately, those who cry "socialism" in the church are a part of the problem. They are not the solution because it shows how far from reality they are as they do not understand the pain of Black people and what they experience on a daily basis.

I pray that we can peacefully reconsider what we are saying here on this forum about Black Lives Matter. This is not about politics or propaganda or some socialist conspiracy theories. There are real human lives at stake, and I pray we can share each other's grief in the Spirit of grace which has been given to us in Christ Jesus our Lord (1 Corinthians 15:45). My hope is that we can have genuine reconciliation with every tribe, tongue, and nation through the Gospel which intersects with us collectively in our brokenness. May God bless you all.


Your Servant in Jesus' Name,

- Michael Barnabas Hoy-Kuen Liao


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Michael Liao

 2020/6/18 13:07Profile
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 Re: brother Michael

Thanks for sharing your perspective and I hope, since your doing it publicly, you’re open to a civil dialogue...

So with that said, in Christ there is no race, gender nor nationality .... for those whom choose to live apart from Him there are only divisions based on these areas of focus.
Most black people in America do not identify with BLM, it’s just the facts- however due to a disproportionate representation in media that isn’t the perception- in fact the city where my wife is from is literally rated (currently) the most dangerous city in America and tho there is a large percentage (if not majority) of black and brown people, they do not embrace nor do they identify nor do they promote BLM. In all honesty they feel their identity is being hi-jacked and exploited for political gain. How does this fact fit into your narrative?

Regarding police officers and “protect and serve”... The USA is a nation of laws. So the motto “protect and serve” is to say the police protect the law abiding population from the lawless population... this motto does not now nor ever (in any society) mean to suggest that those whom are lawless are being protected or served in a civil context but rather are being made subject to the laws governing the country they choose to live in. How does this fact fit into your narrative?

America is open to anyone who wants to be “American” which is to say, embrace the language, culture. National ideology in the pursuit of liberty and happiness. This is not only achieved governmentally but socially, spiritually and otherwise. When someone comes to a place without intention of assimilation, by definition they are disrupting the rights of those whom are in agreement that this is how they choose to operate.
An example could be given of a church fellowship, where new unconverted people begin to attend tho without any intention of assimilation, and begin to demand that the church change to fit them??? This is not the way of the Lord, nor is it the way of Government. This is not to say that people don’t have a voice, but if that voice is primary complaining (a sin) and throwing tantrums about the agreed upon operations of that group they are free to leave and seek community elsewhere- is this not the way to preserve and protect the freedom and liberty of those whom are in agreement regarding their church fellowship or nation? Because you see, to capitulate to those whom seek to undermine the rule of the people (government) is to forgo any basis of freedom for anyone.

This can be easily expressed in China currently, and I’m excited to read your discourse on the grievances of the people enslaved and in some cases encamped under their rule. Because, and please be aware, there is no freedom of expression in that system wether social, spiritual or otherwise and if America bends the knee to BLM or any other group, that is exactly where she (America) will wind up because there will never be an end to the next group who makes demands...

I’m so thankful for the spirit you wrote in and hope you can see that it’s a common place we both share, and I’m not responding to the ends of disagreement but to open dialogues where our voices can be heard by each other 🙏🏻


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Fletcher

 2020/6/18 14:18Profile
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 Re:

Michael I do appreciate what you wrote and the spirit in which it was written.

I know there is a lot of criticism when white folks say “what about...” when confronted with complaints of the black community. I do understand that the complaints of the black community are legitimate and stand on their own merits, and I understand the reticence of the black community and particularly its visible leaders (eg Al Sharpton) to respond to the “what abouts.”

HOWEVER, many many and likely the VAST majority of white people would be much more sympathetic toward the complaints of black Americans IF they would honestly and humbly address at least SOME of the “what abouts” particularly the issue of black on black violent crime. In other words, the average white person has a hard time understanding the outrage over very isolated horrible police misconduct (when compared to the vast number of instances that end normally) when there are 20 or more black on black shootings in Chicago on a given weekend.

In other words, if there was some willingness by black leadership to acknowledge their own house needs cleaned up, they could reach far far more white persons who are willing to join them.


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Todd

 2020/6/18 14:33Profile





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