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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him

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savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2057


 Re:




"those who receive Jesus have heard the Father and are learning from Him."

I ask again, how does the Father and when does/did the Father, if at all, prepare those who receive Jesus?

 2020/5/28 23:34Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 689
Texas

 Re:

This is a great question: There are several ways the Father prepares those who receive Jesus

The Law is put into effect to lead us unto Christ. This is one way we are prepared to receive Jesus. The Law acts as a guardian and steward until we receive the spirit of adoption by which we then cry out Abba Father

The voice of the one crying out in the wilderness is another way men were prepared to receive the Lord. John was sent to reveal the Christ to Israel. He came as a witness to the light, although he himself was not the light, he testified to the light so that all men might believe,

The light shining in the darkness is another way that God prepares men to receive the Lord. The true light that lights every man came into the world so that no one has to walk in darkness. Light makes manifest, and that Light came into the world to shine the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ. Sadly, the god of this age has blinded the minds of those not believing, so that the illumination of the gospel of the glory of Christ does not beam forth.

Another way that God prepares the hearts of men to receive is by speaking through messengers. Faith comes through hearing, and this hearing is through the word of Christ. God through various means and various times spoke to the fathers, but in these last days He has spoken to us through the Son. The Son is the full revelation of the Father, sent into the world to make the Father known. The Father spoke to the Son, and the Son spoke the Father's words that men might believe.

Another way that God prepares the hearts of men to receive the Son is through the works that the Father does through the Son. The works bear witness of the Father that the Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. Jesus told both the Jewish leaders and His own disciples to "believe because of the works." God manifested His glory through the works He did through the Son. He laid bare the power of His arm before the eyes of the people so that they could see His glory.

Another means through which God prepares men to receive the Son is by sending the Holy Spirit who convicts the world of sin, righteousness and judgment. The Spirit bears witness and men also bear witness that Jesus is the Christ.

These are some of the means through which God prepares men to receive Jesus. He has placed us in this age and where we live upon this earth for the very purpose that we would seek Him, reach out for Him and find Him.

mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/29 6:00Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 689
Texas

 Re:

Here is a passage from John that identifies why the people have sin. It links Jesus coming and speaking and doing works to the reason that the people have sin.

John 15:22-25
"I if did not come and speak TO THEM, they were not having sin, but now they have no excuse concerning their sin. The one hating Me hates My Father. (they rejected the person of Jesus and the words of Jesus - and by this revealed that they hate the Father)

vs 24 - If I had not done the works among them which no other one did, they were not having sin, but now they have also seen and have hated even Me and My Father rather in order that might be fulfilled the words, those having been written in the Law that "THEY HATED ME without reason."

"have seen" and "have hated" are both in the Perfect tense - it means that a process had begun, continued and is still ongoing. The people had been seeing, were seeing, and still are seeing. They began to hate, continued hating, and were still hating Jesus and the Father.

This passage ties the actions of the people over the period of time Jesus came, spoke, and worked to the reason they have sin. John used the "imperfect tense" for the phrase - "they were not having sin" The imperfect tense is the writer's way "replaying the events". It allows the reader to see what had been happening.

Jesus coming, speaking, and working - are all in the "aorist" tense. John used the aorist because the "time" or "when" the action happens is not the focus. The implication is that irrespective of time, Jesus coming, speaking and working and "not being received" rather being despised - is WHY people "HAVE SIN"

Not receiving - the coming, teaching, and working of Jesus is the reason SIN is reckoned to men. Once Jesus has come, spoken and worked - if the replay shows that He was not welcomed or received - the scriptures will be fulfilled - He was hated without reason."

mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/30 7:07Profile
CofG
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 494
Cambodia

 Re:

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
It is written in the Prophets, 'And they will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to me- - John 6:44-45

The Question. “” who does not hear and learn and why?”

The Holy Spirit , through Jesus, spoke these exact words as His answer in simple to understand terms:

So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him......

Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. - John 8:42

If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me?
Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God." - John 8:46-47

Question 2. “ Jesus, who then does hear and learn?”

Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me,
but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. - John 10:25-27

The Holy Spirit speaks to all of us in these verses from John having
anticipated the very questions that spawned this and other threads. What God has declared simply must be received that way. No need to complicate or wrestle about.


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Robert

 2020/5/30 10:30Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 689
Texas

 Re:

Dear brother please receive this with the humor it is offered in.

You Wrote

“The Holy Spirit , through Jesus, spoke these exact words as His answer in simple to understand terms”....

As long as we can figure out which one of the five possible meanings of “will” -

I think you will get what I mean.

Mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/30 15:24Profile
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 494
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 Re:

Thanks Mak. I’m not offended. I know you are being sincere. :)


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Robert

 2020/5/30 15:49Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 689
Texas

 Re:

May the Lord preserve among us the true spirit of honor towards one another.

The truths of God are like the vast ocean, we can only attempt to describe a very limited portion.

This is an element of simplicity to me - these words of Jesus.

"The lamp does not come in order to be set under a basket or a bed, but in order to be placed upon a lampstand." This statement in Mark immediately follows the Lord's explanation of the parable of the sower

Jesus is the light. He has not come to be hidden but to give light to all. He is the light that lights every man. This is the verdict - the light that makes manifest has come into the world, but men love darkness more than light because their deeds are evil.

For nothing is secret but for the purpose that it should be manifest and nothing hidden but for the purpose that it should be revealed. If anyone has ears TO HEAR - LET HIM HEAR.

And then His own summary - the one who HAS to him will be given, and the one who does not have, what he has will be taken from him.

This statement sheds light on the answer to the question the disciples asked Jesus about why He spoke to the people in parables.

The disciples had eyes that "are seeing" - they HAVE seeing eyes. They had ears that "are hearing" - they have hearing ears. This is why the mysteries of the kingdom of God had been, and continue to be given to them.

mak



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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/30 17:30Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Mak,

Pro 1:28

“Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me.

Pro 1:29

Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD,

Pro 1:30

They would have none of my counsel
And despised my every rebuke.

Pro 1:31

Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.

Pro 1:32

For the turning away of the simple will slay them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them;


Here is another thought from Scripture which describes the "hardening process." With the absence of God's protective nurture, those who have refused to hear, are now left to the tempter, who appeals to the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.


Pro 1:31

Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way,
And be filled to the full with their own fancies.



Rom 1:24

Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves,

Rom 1:25

who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.









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Jeff Marshalek

 2020/6/1 12:47Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 689
Texas

 Re:

Yes, Jeff,

These and many other passages throughout the prophets demonstrate God's genuine attempt to turn His own chosen people back to Himself in order to "have mercy" upon them and "heal their wrong ways."

When all of His prolonged attempts are rejected, He imputes upon them the fruit of their choices.

The result is that although He desires and promises mercy, He repents of the good He purposed to do, and brings the evil of their own way upon their heads.

mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/6/1 13:59Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 689
Texas

 Re:

I was reminded how Paul spoke directly to this in Romans chapter 2

κατὰ δὲ τὴν σκληρότητά σου καὶ ἀμετανόητον καρδίαν θησαυρίζεις σεαυτῷ ὀργὴν ἐν ἡμέρᾳ ὀργῆς

Translated: But according to YOUR hardness and unrepentant heart, YOU are storing up wrath to YOURSELF in the day of wrath.

And this statement follows what Paul says "WE KNOW" - that the kindness of God leads YOU to repentance.

This YOU is the very same YOU who is storing up wrath unto himself by HIS hardness and unrepentant heart.

Added: In this same passage Paul employs the dynamic grammatical tool of the Greek middle voice to direct the readers focus to the subjects role in relation to the action of the main verb

τοῖς δὲ ἐξ ἐριθείας καὶ ἀπειθοῦσιν τῇ ἀληθείᾳ πειθομένοις δὲ τῇ ἀδικίᾳ ὀργὴ καὶ θυμός.a 9 θλῖψις καὶ στενοχωρίαb ἐπὶ πᾶσαν ψυχὴν ἀνθρώπου τοῦ κατεργαζομένου τὸ κακόν, Ἰουδαίου τε πρῶτον καὶ Ἕλληνος 10 δόξα δὲ καὶ τιμὴ καὶ εἰρήνη παντὶ τῷ ἐργαζομένῳ τὸ ἀγαθόν

Translation: But to the contentious ones, those unpersuaded by the truth, but the ones persuading THEMSELVES (present middle participle) in unrighteousness, anger and wrath. Tribulation and distress upon every soul of man the ones THEMSELVES working evil (present, middle, participle), the Jew first
and the Greek. But glory, honor and peace to everyone HIMSELF working the good. (again a present, middle, participle)

The grammar was carefully chosen to convey the reason for the anger and wrath was the subject's own participation in the refusing to be persuaded by the truth, and persuading himself in unrighteousness.


mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/6/1 14:12Profile





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