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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him

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makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 689
Texas

 No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him

What are we take from this statement?

Jesus said the one hearing the Father and learning from Him comes to Me. All who the Father gives Me will come to Me. No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him.

Are we to take that God draws some and not others? Possibly, because many do take it that way. They do so sincerely and reasonably. They have read the same passages that you and I read - "I will have mercy upon I have mercy and I will harden whom I harden."

It is also clear that many are called and few are chosen. The scriptures are clear that receiving the truth is a clear indication of being in the elect. Repentance and faith are both spoken of as the gift of God. Does God offer the gift of faith to all? Paul wrote to Timothy that those who oppose him should be instructed in meekness, in the HOPE that God would grant them repentance...

What are we to make of these statements and how are we to understand them in relation to other scriptures such as:
"God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." and "He is not willing that any should perish?"

I have wrestled with these questions and recently reading through John chapter 6, there it was in plain black and white. Jesus knew those who had not believed from the beginning. When He was dealing with their objections, He acknowledged that He only received those who the Father gave to Him. Here in chapter 6 and in chapter 8, He somehow knew who did not love the Father and that unless they were of the Father, they would never believe Him.

While I was pondering all this, the mercy and grace of the Father unwrapped the enigma to me in such a way that it became so simple, so obvious.

Only those hearing the Father and learning from Him will ever come to Jesus. The only words Jesus ever spoke are the Father's words. He never spoke any word from Himself. Every word He spoke, He heard from the Father both what to say and how to say it. If someone was not willing to hear the Father and learn from Him - Jesus had nothing to offer them.

Jesus knew from the beginning of His ministry all those who did not believe. How? The Father raised up John the Baptist to prepare the way of the Lord, and filled John with the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb. John the Baptist was the Father's messenger who proclaimed repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Everyone who refused to hear John's message, was refusing the words of the Father. If they refused what the Father said through John, why would they receive what the Father said through Jesus?

Jesus knew also that the Father had spoken to Moses about Himself, and that Moses wrote about it in the Law. It was obvious to Him, that since the Father had sent Him, and those who claim to believe Moses would not receive Him, that they really did not believe Moses either.

Since they would not receive Him and He was sent by His Father, they were not of His Father, they were of their father the devil and the works of their father they would do. If they really loved the Father, they would love the Son whom the Father sent.

It is simple - those who receive Jesus have heard the Father and are learning from Him. He then leads them to the full knowledge of Himself through the Son. Those who will not receive the Son are really refusing to hear the Father who sent Him and gave Him the words to speak.

The Father sent John the Baptist to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the children to the father and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous. When the Pharisees and lawyers refused to repent at the preaching of the forerunner sent by the Father to prepare the way - they rejected the purposes of the Father for themselves.

This is why Jesus knew that they would never accept what He had to say, because they had already refused the Father's purpose to prepare them to receive the Son.

mak




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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/26 10:48Profile
Friedrick
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Joined: 2004/8/19
Posts: 112
Nicaragua

 Re: No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him

Thanks for sharing this brother, I have been waiting for a word like this. The logos calls out that which was chosen from the beginning according to the foreknowledge of God.


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Joshua

 2020/5/27 20:39Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2057


 Re: No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him



"...they had already refused the Father's purpose to prepare them to receive the Son."

Mak,

When & how, did those after John Baptist was beheaded, up and until this present day, refuse the Father's purpose?

 2020/5/28 11:41Profile
leyoung
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Joined: 2016/11/15
Posts: 257


 Re:

Jesus said, “I am the way , and the truth , and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” Mt. 14:6

If the Father has drawn you, then you will believe His Son. Seems pretty clear to me.

Just thinking, but if the Father draws people and they reject His Son, that is their choice even though He knew from the foundations of the earth who would believe and who wouldn’t. Who can fathom God’s ways?

Simple me,
L


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L Young

 2020/5/28 12:07Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 689
Texas

 Re:

Savannah asked
"When & how, did those after John Baptist was beheaded, up and until this present day, refuse the Father's purpose?"

Luke 7:30
 οἱ δὲ Φαρισαῖοι καὶ οἱ νομικοὶ τὴν βουλὴν τοῦ θεοῦ ἠθέτησαν εἰς ἑαυτοὺς μὴ βαπτισθέντες ὑπʼ αὐτοῦ

But the Pharisses and the lawyers rejected God's purpose unto themselves, not having been baptized by him."

The group that I was referring to was the audience to which Jesus was speaking. He knew that all the Jews who had refused John's testimony, would not believe His either.

Those who refuse to hear the words of Jesus, will not be judged by John's words, but the words of our Lord.

mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/28 12:44Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re: No one can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him

Mak quoted:

"I will have mercy upon I have mercy and I will harden whom I harden."

Have you considered the second part of this verse? How does, according to Scripture, God harden those whom this verse speaks of above?

Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2020/5/28 14:57Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 689
Texas

 Re:

This is a great question and I have been considering this for a number of years. There are two aspects that I continue to seek understanding on; Why does God harden? and How does He harden?

Jeremiah chapter 6 contains the Lord's plea to Israel through Jeremiah: verses 16-19 from the LXX
τάδε λέγει κύριος Στῆτε ἐπὶ ταῖς ὁδοῖς καὶ ἴδετε, καὶ ἐρωτήσατε τρίβους κυρίου αἰωνίους καὶ ἴδετε, ποία ἐστὶν ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ ἀγαθή, καὶ βαδίζετε ἐν αὐτῇ, καὶ εὑρήσετε ἁγνισμὸν ταῖς ψυχαῖς ὑμῶν, καὶ εἶπαν Οὐ πορευσόμεθα.† 17 κατέστακα ἐφʼ ὑμᾶς σκοπούς, ἀκούσατε τῆς φωνῆς τῆς σάλπιγγος, καὶ εἶπαν Οὐκ ἀκουσόμεθα.† 18 διὰ τοῦτο ἤκουσαν τὰ ἔθνη καὶ οἱ ποιμαίνοντες τὰ ποίμνια αὐτῶν. 19 ἄκουε, γῆ, ἰδοὺ ἐγὼ ἐπάγω ἐπὶ τὸν λαὸν τοῦτον κακά, τὸν καρπὸν ἀποστροφῆς αὐτῶν, ὅτι τῶν λόγων μου οὐ προσέσχον καὶ τὸν νόμον μου ἀπώσαντο
Translation - Thus says the Lord, stand upon the ways and perceive and ask for the paths of the Lord of the ages and behold what is the good way and walk in it and you will find purification to your souls. And THEY SAID - WE WILL NOT WALK. I stood watchman upon you, hear the sound of the trumpet, and THEY SAID WE WILL NOT HEAR. Because of this hear nations and the shepherds shepherding their flocks. Hear O earth, behold I bring upon this people evil, THE FRUIT OF THEIR REJECTION (turning away).

Who does God harden? - those who refuse to hear.

How does He harden? - By bringing upon them the FRUIT of their OWN WAY! God is not mocked, whatsoever a man sows, that will he also reap.

Their way was the evil of not hearing His voice or the sound of the trumpet. They did not will to hear. They stiffened their necks against receiving correction.

So these are the people God hardened. And God brought THIS EVIL upon them - the fruit of their own turning away. He hardens whom He will harden.
They sowed "NOT-hearing" and reaped God's hardness. They sowed refusal to be turned back and reaped being given over to a depraved mind.

mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/28 16:13Profile
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 689
Texas

 Re:

For those who want to study the passages that speak about having eyes not to see and ears not to hear, so as to learn from them the implications of this condition.

Here are the references:
John 12:36-43
Matthew 13:10-17
Isiah 6:9-10
Isaiah 42:20
Isaiah 44:18
Isaiah 53:1`-2
Jeremiah 5:20-25
Jeremiah 6:16-19
Ezekiel 12:1-2
Deuteronomy 29:1-4

These passages speak of a condition that developed in the hearts of the people. Was it God who caused this condition or the actions of the people that caused this?
Or is it a combination of both?

mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/28 17:20Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2057


 Re: groups



"The group that I was referring to was the audience to which Jesus was speaking."

So...are you saying that the Father doesn't prepare anyone else for His purpose,other than that group?

In other words, do I understand you correctly insofar as what you've stated in regard to the Father preparing for His purpose, that such is non-applicable to all others with the exception of this group?

 2020/5/28 18:34Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 689
Texas

 Re:

Not at all - but that specific group is an example from scripture demonstrating that God’s purpose can be rejected. The purpose of God for those who heard John was to repent and be baptized. The Pharisees and lawyers rejected God’s purpose, whereas other people received the message and rejoiced.

Mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/28 19:04Profile





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