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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : God doesn't need worship or praise

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philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
My whole point to this topic is that God only comands things for our own benifit.


So why did He create the universe?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/7/31 12:51Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

For His own good pleasure! Rev. 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Other verses are...

Psalms 149:4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.

Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure

 2005/7/31 13:14Profile
TiltedHalo
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Joined: 2005/7/18
Posts: 57
Brooklyn, USA

 Re: Logic

Why must you continue to rip apart scripture; remove it from context; & try to fit any verse to "prove" your point?


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Arnaldo Santiago, Jnr.

 2005/7/31 13:50Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Logic

Interesting yet...

Logic, am a bit unsure of the necessity of this. It seems to be stating the obvious on the one hand, like a round circle. This becomes wrought with problems as was mentioned.

Job 38:12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

Job 38:16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?


Job 38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.


Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?


Job 38:36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?

Quote:
My whole point to this topic is that God only comands things for our own benifit. I gave worship as an example of how we benifit. But I still stand on the fact that GOD does not NEED our praise or our worship, We need to do it.



Then why create mankind? And more so, [i]what if[/i] it turns out He does indeed need our worship? Because He Himself created the 'need'?

The other problem with the way you are putting this in "[i]We need to do it[/i]" reverses the role of God in demanding something, turning us back into mere robots or under the thumb of a cruel dictator. I do realize the sentiments you expressed earlier here and don't think you are attempting to miss the point or make the point... perhaps it's [i]besides[/i] the point. The point [u]is[/u], we worship Him because [i] He is worthy to be praised![/i]

Quote:
I would doubt anyones salvation if they don't worship and praise God in spirit and in Truth.



You really don't want to "go there" do you? What if they haven't gotten to that understanding yet? Besides do you really want to be acting as judge in this matter? Just food for thought.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/7/31 14:08Profile









 Re:

Wow, that was the first time I lost a post since I've been on here.

Well, anyways, what I had written was ...
I confess to not opening this thread before just now and went against my word and didn't read all the pages. [u]I'm sorry !!![/u]

It's just that the Title threw me or Scared me, or 'whatever'.

Anyhow, I like the word Mike used, as in "robotic".

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The emphasis in this verse is not on "Must Worship" but "must be in Spirit and in Truth".

Romans 8 talks about "walking in the Spirit."

Just two verses from it...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, [u]who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/u]
Rom 8:14 For as many as are [u]led[/u] by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Jesus said, that the Holy Spirit is the "Spirit of Truth", Who brings ALL attention to God & Christ, and Glorifies God/Jesus Constantly (like in Heaven).

Before Jesus, This Same Spirit, only dwelled in the Holy of Holies, of the temple.

Now imagine that ... We have access to that same Spirit of Glory, within us. PHEW-WOW!!!

But we choose, whether to "walk in the Spirit", (lean/depend on HIM for every decision, etc.etc.), or to continue to just walk in the natural man or flesh, or whatever we are that you prefer to call our soul, or mind, or self, etc.

We don't [u]gotta[/u] do nuttin', (So to speak), it's a 'choice' walk ... As in - the difference between "the letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law" ... But "if that same Spirit dwells in you, that dwelled in Christ and the Temple, etc. then the "gotta" is in Romans 8 "Walk in the Spirit". (Actually, that part is the command)

We live in the flesh most of our lives. Before and after Salvation.
But after His Indwelling comes, upon Salvation, we have the 'Choice', to wait on, lean on, be dependent on, be 'led' by, and "walk" in His Spirit or to just continue to plow on autonomously.

If then and so, that we get into "Dependence on Him" - then He (by His Spirit) will lead us into all Truth, will be Christocentric and will be in a constant state of worship ... cuz, that's what the Spirit of Glory,Christ,Truth,God, does 24/7.

Yeeeeeeeeee-haaaaaaaaa, and in Heaven too !

 2005/7/31 17:52
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
TiltedHalo Said, "Why must you continue to rip apart scripture; remove it from context; & try to rip apart & try to fit any verse to "prove" your point?



Please, show me the scriptures I rip apart and fit any verse to "prove" my point.
If your talking about the last statement I made for the quetion, :So why did He create the universe? asked by philologos. How is this wrong? For His own good pleasure! Rev. 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

I used the other verses to show that God only does things for HIS pleasure. Because He has no need.
Psalms 50:12 If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.

 2005/8/1 16:02Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
crsschk said, "Then why create mankind? And more so, what if it turns out He does indeed need our worship? Because He Himself created the 'need'?


"What if" questions are mute since they are unprooveable, so it is an irrelevant point.

Quote:
The other problem with the way you are putting this in "We need to do it" reverses the role of God in demanding something, turning us back into mere robots or under the thumb of a cruel dictator.


I must disagree because He still gives a choise, He doesn't make us to worship or praise, and how does it make God demanding if it only benifits us. Maybe I should change the "need" to "Should" for it to say that we should do it to reep the blessing from doing it and from Him.


Quote:
I do realize the sentiments you expressed earlier here and don't think you are attempting to miss the point or make the point


Thanks for realizing the sentiments, I wonder if you even agree to the main point? do you?

Quote:
perhaps it's besides the point. The point is, we worship Him because He is worthy to be praised!


O.K. I agree that I should have mentioned that He is worthy to be praised and worshiped along with my first post in this thread, but I thought that was assumed and obvious, and that is why I didn't mention it.

Quote:
I said, "I would doubt anyones salvation if they don't worship and praise God in spirit and in Truth."
then you responded, "You really don't want to "go there" do you? What if they haven't gotten to that understanding yet? Besides do you really want to be acting as judge in this matter? Just food for thought."



What if they haven't gotten to that understanding yet?
That is ridiculous absurd, and Contrary to nature, reason, or common sense;. Someone who knows that they are on their way to an eternaty into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm(conscience) dieth not. They also agree that they deserve this punishment, from the Law doing its work in them, and they cry out as Paul does, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"(Romans 7:24) Then they find Grace, that God will have mercy on them and deliver them out from this just condemnation, and they don't worship and praise God in spirit and in Truth?

Yes, I would doubt that they are saved.
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

"Besides do you really want to be acting as judge in this matter?"

The bible is clear about this, I am not acting as judge but I am showing what the judge has said.

 2005/8/1 16:52Profile





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