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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : What about those who do not know?

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5483
NC, USA

 Re:

There is no doubt, at least in my mind, the Pharisees saw Gods glory in the miracles and words of Jesus, and they knew he was telling the absolute truth, but willfully chose not to believe because it threatened their power structure.


_________________
Todd

 2020/5/22 17:16Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 670
Texas

 Re:

Thank you Robert for the discussion. Although we differ in our understanding of the means by which God's grace quickens the person who responds to the gospel, I am very aware that unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain that try to build it. I remember our Lord's words that it takes the drawing of the Father for men to come.

I have the privilege of preaching and teaching regularly, and more than ever in my journey, I am aware that the response of the heart is more than just a result of my sharing. I seek to set forth the truth plainly so as to commend myself before every man's conscience, and I hope that the grace of God will awaken the heart bound or dead in sin.

I am entirely dependent upon the Lord adding to the number of saints that I gather with. Nearly every time I am quieting my soul before the Lord and seeking to yield to His Spirit, I consciously acknowledge that He alone can circumcise the heart and that repentance is a gift of grace.

Thank you for your thoughtful dialogue. I have always been stimulated by it.

mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/22 17:47Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1075


 Re:

Brothers, is there anyway that this might help ?

I just happened to come across this ,.. have just started listening,..thought it quite interesting, .....thought on this conversation you are having here.
.....
“The Sovereignty of God”
By Arthur W.Pink

,...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXh9ZdxC1MM&feature=share


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elizabeth

 2020/5/22 18:18Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2046


 Re: AWP



Elibeth,

"The Sovereignty of God" by Arthur W. Pink is a classic on the subject. It is a favorite of mine.
Thanks for mentioning it.

 2020/5/22 21:18Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1075


 Re:

You are welcome, Savana

*I will put the website here again,.. something seems to
Have went wrong on last try.....I noticed it wasn’t working as it should.
Sorry about that.

..................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXh9ZdxC1MM&feature=share

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elizabeth

 2020/5/22 21:30Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 487
Cambodia

 Re:

thanks Mak, to the praise of the glory of His grace we will join hands one day to shout together. :)


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Robert

 2020/5/23 5:54Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2046


 Re:


Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, ‘We see,’ your guilt remains.

The key to understanding this are the words "YOU SAY".

They, in their pride said, "we see".

Jesus Himself doesn't say that they actually do see.

He says that their guilt remains because 'they say' that 'they see'.

If such were not the case this following verse would be meaningless;

The ear that hears and the eye that sees - the Lord has made even the both of them. Proverbs 20:12

Robert, you have accurately handled the Word of Truth. Thanks for doing so. I've been following this thread all along. The verses in 1 Corinthians 2 and Mark 4 which you brought to the table are enough to clearly show the truth of the matter with the Pharisees and all others who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

 2020/5/23 21:25Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5483
NC, USA

 Re:

There is a difference between ignorance and willful ignorance, the latter being far worse. The Pharisees were guilty of willful ignorance, which is just a way of saying they were not really ignorant at all.

ADD: if the Pharisees were truly innocent because God had not really “opened their eyes,“ why did Jesus seem so angry and frustrated with them all of the time?


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Todd

 2020/5/24 8:54Profile
makrothumia
Member



Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 670
Texas

 Re:

Robert and Savanah, - I hope that both of you realize that you are attempting to express something that is “eisegesis” - reading into the text.

It is clear from exegesis that word for knowledge is “ginosko” and “epiginosko”. You are affirming a type of Gnosticism which I do not believe either of you intend to do. Please come consider this. You are saying that there is a hidden knowledge only offered to the elect. The rest of the people can never really know. Therefore yourselves and the other elect are the only ones who really are “in the know”.

This is not what Romans 10 says. When Paul asked “did they not know” - he was speaking of personal experience with God: You are reading into the text a type of “knowing” not in Paul’s mind.

Mak


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2020/5/24 9:58Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 487
Cambodia

 Re:

Hi Mak, Maybe my language has not been precise or useful so I will pass along a very familiar verse that explains what is required to “know” and this even for beliebers.

For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,
from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named,
that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being,
so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith-that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. - Ephesians 3:14-19


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Robert

 2020/5/24 10:13Profile





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