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KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 39
South Africa

 Re: A rather interesting realization

No I did not end up availing healthcare as hoped on my prevous post. After suffering a rather severe chest pain one night, I felt compelled to finally try to consult as hoped the following morning. However for some reasons, the emergency call center made it so hard for us to avail an ambulance - so much that I again felt compelled to give up. Afterall, I was still unsure if I was ready for the war I felt I should anticipate - thought thus willing fight.
Since then I have continued to suffer various sysmptops at sundry times (todate) - some mild while some would appear to threaten life. And all I could attempt (it seems) would be to consult with GPs (both in person and online). And of cause not much could be found out due to equipment limitations.
Howevereve there recently has been a rather interesting realizing on the matter - that may/must warrant availing of sensitive healthcare even in mixed-gender setups (provided the patient is comfortable for their own sake - else to pray for possible alternatives). It appears healthcare providers are thus found in these questionable setup due to lack of discretion (on both their part and that of their institution's management). In fact it appears gender matching is not even a major deciding factor for those without the fear of God - but wages/RIO instead (amongst others). Which then thus result in carelessly stuffed/allocated healthcare providers.
But for the patient, all this proves to be a case of wrong people (mismatched-gender healthcarers) in the right place. A case of female showers and a male cleaner seems to be one good example. The sisters may feel uncomfortable but does such a setup warrant just condemnation on their part as well - is lack of discretion not on the part of the cleaner (who thus ended up in the wrong place)? Again a sister may feel uncomfortable paying for hear private garmets at a male cashier - but should she be condemned therewith for being a possible stumbling block (of impure thoughts) to the cashier? Has the cashier as well as his seniors not failed to exercise discretion of allocation. Yes unfortunately some of our actions may directly promote a wrong doing by others - but it is important to check if such actions justly warrant condemnation on our part. I may give a poor man food and he then (from the ernegy derived) go on to offend another in some way. A man without discretion may have lustful thoughts over a well dressed sister walking down the road - but should the sister feel condemned for having walked that road at that time - since her action is directly attributable to the sinful lust? I find not.
I have for days been minding to post this update for the perusal and judgement of brethren - and there it is. And am looking forward to finally attempt a formal consultation via a public hospital thus with a clear conscience. Yes I have sought to kept all this before God - that he might accordingly advise should I be deceived.

As for the noted HIV+ brother, I came to learn of an "undetectable state" status (essentially an equivalence of a negative status). Not sure how much of a chance he still stands but my hope on his health (outside a miracle) has ever since thus revived - and we have been attempting efforts toward the same. But this is another topic on its own. The grace of God abound over all that seek him in truth.


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Kervin

 2020/10/2 4:39Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 39
South Africa

 Re: A little update

My condition has essentially been an on and off one lately. And I have on occasions felt moved to humbly to ask the LORD to rather close by book at once than that he should let me thus suffer. Yes I suffered much at times - enought to warrant an ambulance call (but could not for the said concern). Well at one time as I layed thus suffering, I went to do an online search for any official statement of rights of patients in South Africa and found the following (Amonst other stated rights). "Everyone has a right to choose a particular health care provider for services or a particular health facility for treatment provided that such choice shall not be contrary to the ethical standards applicable to such health care providers or facilities and the choice of facility is in line with prescribed service delivery guidelines." While this brought abought a lot of hope over the public hospital option, I felt that the dreaded possiblity of opposition from unbelieving providers as well as the mental strain already layed on health care providers by Covid-19 generally, still made it a not very easy one. I for this reason could not get up and accordingly give it a try at once but held back still. May I addd, while on the effects of Covid-19, that I could not avail the funds I said to have hoped for due to the complete lockdown South Africa faced last month. It turns out the income I lost during that period affected the daily sums that the bank I hold my main account with use to estimate my monthly income (being self-employed and not registered). From these estimations the bank periodically offers me pre-approved small loans (about $500) which I then pay back over a period of 6 months (And I had just settled the one I took in Dec 2019). There is hope however for these sums to be adjusted for the better early next month but my condition has not appeared as one that can wait longer lately.
 
Because of this aparent urgency, it became necessary to consider and explore further the public hospital option. After much pondering, it appears the process could to be helped a little if I could seek first from the Ambulance paramedics an advise on exactly how these request types are to be best made. This is provided I get over in an Ambulance. But if on the other hand I could get a little better enough to warrant a walk-in attempt, then I could try and seek guidance (on how to proceed with the request) from the OPD doctor I should have to consult with first. Especially since the same matter caused me to default my last appointment - which I expect them to follow up on. Perhaps I could as well keep a written request for those cases where it may be the best medium to communicate the same. The whole am I looking to attempt as soon as possible (could be as soon as tonight) as I have long lost hope in continuing thus with just the nitrates and aspirin. As for the possible opposition at large, I reckon I shall have to take it as an appointed bitter cup before me.

Well, while thus hopeful a little about finally availing medical health care for my condition, I feel mocked still by yet another situation - where a prayer for a miracle (even that of devine healing) is demanded from me still. I have a bother-friend who may have of late even become a brother in Christ (a little about him on this appeal https://bit.ly/3gBxpxr - under the Updates tab) who is on an HIV dying bed. Of cause given upon by earthly physicians (as many others in his shoes). A situation that cares very little if at all about the subject of this thread as there is no longer hope in eartly medicine for him anyways (save for the feeble little that the ARVs can offer). While I could gladly let the Lord thus call him over (especially since he thus have expressed hopeful signs of conversion lately), he has a 12 year old son who could use a godly upbringing (of cause the Lord can still show the lad mercy in his absence in the extreme). This then became the main reason for me to wish for him (the dying brother) extended years from the LORD. The lad's mother is still in little better health but she has not yet showed as much hopeful signs of conversion as the brother though she contends to be under the same yoke (from the conversations we have with them at sundry times). I therefore feel like I shall not be off the hook yet even if I may finally get my own condition diagnosed and treated through medical means. But that I shall still need to continue to lift up my heart to the Lord for possible mercy on his health. How I long for earnest men of God on whom he had bestowed his gifts of miracle and healing (not the sad folks on TVs whose doctrine do not align with the one for the Chist by whose name they claim to heal - whose healing power therefore cannot be vouched for or easily be ascribed to the God of Jacob). Then would we mocked less by health complications. No I am sadly not convinced to have any of these two gifts though I have been moved to desire that LORD for the same lately (particulary after having to taste the cup of serious and extended illness personally). O that the Lord would show mercy!


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Kervin

 2020/5/31 9:44Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 39
South Africa

 Re:

@1: I understand your agree, dear Sree that lusting is to be expected from providers (though with some exceptions, so I further understand).

@2: True - the main concern is indeed whether the patient should be found guilty of neglectfully casting a stumbling block in the path of the provider. And I understand your position is that God should not find a fault on the patient's hands as long as they never have intentions to allure. To this I would like ask if you would consider any Christian female guiltless who, due to hot weather and need to refresh, goes and spend some time half-clothed at the beach - simply because she had no intention to allure any male stranger who may see her thus half-clothed and lust over her? Should she not be charged of hideous neglect and evil carelessness?

@3: Dear Marvin had this wonder as well. And my understanding is: while such lusting should still be as vile to God as that of a 'straight' provider, I honestly do not see how there may be valid grounds of neglect on the side of the patient. But instead understand that such a case is to be treated alike with one where a male may lust over a well-clothed female for example. Where the female cannot be guilty of aught as there was neither evil intent nor neglect on her part.

@4: I still wish to encounter a provider (of proven/provable Christian piety) vouching for the possibility of this. Especially since you will agree with me, dear Sree that simply professing to be Christian is never sufficient. For example you can be disturbed at how many professors of Christianity are guilty of the very basic precepts. Making it necessary therefore to as well ascertain that any provider vouching for this possibility (of serving all patients in all circumstances with reasonable ease) indeed leads a Christ-like life.

--------------------------------------

With all the above said, I remain at wonder if we are thus stumbling on this because of our spiritual bankruptcy or simply infancy. That we should thus seem to be shaped by the world (as condemned by dear Savannah's findings - that suggest that this was not always a norm even amongst the heathens). Or have we not the great Physician by our side - one whom the world cannot look up to and therefore are left to desperately exploit whatever they would to avail good health? But we can look up to him whenever all "valid" earthly help fails?
Yes I am left yearning for a greater enlightening over the people of God. That as many of us may be awaken 'if indeed thus asleep' or be brought to full age "if indeed in infancy still" so that we can repossess privileges that are our potion - the gift of miracles, the gift of healing, etc. Then would we have fewer reasons to be perplexed by the same concerns that perplex the world.

Above all remembering that the Bible does not teach (directly or otherwise, so I understand) that saints are permitted to compromise doctrines as long as it is for the good of man - his breath even. Else would the poor be permitted to steal necessities as it is for their survival. But the Bible instead infers that a poor man should be disposed to die (of hunger, malnutrition, cold, etc) if he cannot avail relief the justified way. A call to resist sin unto death...


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Kervin

 2020/5/19 20:34Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 39
South Africa

 Re:

Sorry it took me longer to notice the added reply. I intend to reply in details in a few hours' time.


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Kervin

 2020/5/19 14:20Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1770


 Re:

Kevin this thread has definitely blessed me so much. Here is my take now after meditating on your question in the presence of our Lord. Remember I refined from answering your question earlier.

1. The statement made by people here that doctors and nurses would have seen many nude males, so they will not lust is not appropriate. Though there is a certain element of truth about it, it cannot be generalized. I am aware of nurses who had affairs with their own patients. So it is not our job to judge whether a healthcare provider will be lustful or not. Perversion has no limit in this corrupted world.

2. The question here is not whether the healthcare provider will Lust or not. The question is if they lust, will I be held accountable for making them stumble? The answer I got for this is NO. Again it is an act of faith, to him who thinks it is Sin to them it is sin. It is not a sin to me. I do not present my body to a healthcare provider for them to lust but for them to treat. If they lust then I do not believe God will make me accountable for it. Sin is always a matter of the heart; if my heart is clear then it is not a sin.

3. The question considers people of opposite sex being healthcare providers. What about male doctors and nurses being Gays (homosexuals)? Then what if they lust after you during the examination? Will God count you accountable? If we start thinking in this way then where do we draw the line? It will be a never-ending debate.

4. I know a woman who was had serious complications during her pregnancy. All most all gynecologists were unwilling to accept her as a patient. But she found a male gynecologist who was a specialist in dealing with her case. In fact, He only accepts patients with complications like hers. He was a Christian by faith and an elderly black American. He did an excellent job and God clearly blessed her with normal delivery. She had a blessed experience and was also recommending that doctor to other sisters in Church with similar complications. Even the other sister as well had a similar experience and was eternally thankful for this doctor. Now having witnessed this blessing that God provided in her life via a male doctor, how in the right mind can I tell that God will not allow a person of opposite sex to examine?


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Sreeram

 2020/5/16 8:30Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 39
South Africa

 Re:

duplicate post


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Kervin

 2020/5/10 7:19Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 39
South Africa

 Re:

1. I admit that this is a sensitive matter and may God forbid that I should found causign unnecessary stir amongst his people.
2. While not at all sympathizing with the bitter cup before me (healthcare access difficulity) I feel evidence at hand demands of me to retain my position.
3. No I honestly do not believe that this is a matter that may apply to some Christians and not to others. But do assert that there exist such observations that may be conditionally applicable - with no urgent/real need to be amended.
4. Since the inferred conclusion was not devinely revealed, I agree and do indeed challenge each and every affected heart to look up to the Father through his Christ for confirmation (or rejection?) through his Spirit. Yes I agree that once we should all view the matter with the help of the Spirit, we should all be on the same side of the same matter.
5. I am fully persuated that if lust is as ruinous as any other vile sin, then that we must need flee every lust-trap like setup as we would a plague. And equally that we should avoid uncovering in situations where we may be sighted and 'evil lusted' upon (and thereby be found guity of being stumbling blocks in our neighbour's paths). Let us not forget the mile stone on the neck and the casting into the sea.
6. There is good hope for private consultation funds now I should say. I would like to further note how very much enlarged I got as this thread unfolded, dispite my continued difficulty (of illness and yet having no imidiate access to valid healthcare). I felt more at peace and could much easier take the dreaded death. For I got a fair chance to reflect even the more on the fact that having to thus resist sin was no new thing - but every Christian's portion. So I heartily thank every one who participated in ernestness and pray that God would make it his delight to show them more grace in their earthly pilgrimage.
7. What if this is indeed the case - the need to insist on gender matching? What could Christians do to try and keep sane in the midst of daring health issues? Well I believe what will have to be done should be no different from other relief measures used for other distress types. Let he who afford stick with private providers as often as 'need be'. Keeping in mind the Lord's capable and devine healing hand. And let the same saintly member of a Chrurch that could not help finance a private consutation when a low income member fell ill now see that state owned centers can no longer be a valid option where unsure if gender requests can be successfully made (if necessary). Let the desolate widow pray. Otherwise we, above all, shall have to resist unto blood (or death) I fear. The Lord vindicate his own Word in his great mercies and for his own glory - Amen.

NB: No this reply should by no means be viewed as a thread closing remarks from me - though oddly formated. Edification-intended and ernest replies remain very welcomed. Including those that seek to challege the inferred conclusion to the glory of God. May the peace of the same God be with all that love him in truth.


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Kervin

 2020/5/10 7:19Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 39
South Africa

 Re:

I am still a bit weary and was already when I wrote my last reply. May I be forgiven if some parts of it (though written from sincere heart) be crude, unkind, unevangelical or lake coherency. I fear I may also have read dear Fletcher's reply in haste as well. I aim to have another look once refreshed (God willing) and make amends where necessary. I also hope to tell of how enlarged the whole discussion got me - even though my position seems to remain unchanged (including my healtcare access problem). May it be the Lord who is glorified in the end and not man. The Lord's grace abound on as many as love him in truth


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Kervin

 2020/5/9 11:51Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 39
South Africa

 Re:

Thanks for your reply, dear Fletcher. I commented the way I did largely because I fear we may be abusing the 'clean conscience' based liberty here (perhaps it is my misaprehension). Are we saying that a believer who engages in sexual relations for example with his bride-to-be prio to the voiwing day (because he was told it was okay) is justified and may continue to do so simply because he is then doing it in a clean conscience? Do not he instead have to come to know that such is aborminable and should be forsaken? I believe only a handful of Christian observations may apply to certain group and not another - while the rest of them should be standard across all Christedom. And in fact this line of difference 'seems' to be drawn by spiritual maturity rather than the nature or significancy of the doctrine. Else non should perish due to deception as long as they are following their deception in a clean conscience. But no the Bible has several warnings against deception.

No I do not mean to insist that our position be established simply based on supporting information and arguments (you will rememeber I did advise that I was open to both though thus positioned). It's just that currently presented evidence (including scriptural backing) seem to suggest that the inferered conclussion is the case and therefore worthy of acceptance. The Appostles sat around to discuss the matter of circumcission and were happy with the conclussion reached afterwards. More so because they probably trusted that the Holy Spirit was in their midst to guide and enlighten them on the matter. Can I boldly say that this was birthed in haeven? I dare not to say as it was not a devine revelation. But as it seems to have been with the apostles, I would like to take it that this is the conclusion the Holy Spirit is happy to bring us to.

But as addedd on my privious reply, let as many hearts that may be left uncertain given the presented arguments prayerfully look up to the Father throught Christ until set at ease. Then shall no man say: I was driven astray by another. No I do not believe that this is one of the Christian doctirnes of which we may say to apply to one group (of belivers) and not another.
Yes it is infact my prayer too as admonished by the quoted Psalm that God would bring as many of us (that he may find truly open to him and worthy) to clarity accordingly if the inferred conclussion be a miss. I say worthy becuase it appears God does not make it his duty to reveal further truth to any one guilty of failing to observe other obvious and fundamental precepts that they already know.


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Kervin

 2020/5/9 9:57Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1438
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Kervin

You wrote / Therefore one must be sure that not only are they doing something in a clean conscience but that they are also not idle but prayerfully and actively seek to come to the fuller knowledge of the will of God. And thereby giving God a platform to reveal to them any vile thing that they may be holding onto in good faith unawares. Psalm 139:23-24 /


Yes and Amen!!
And the absolute only way to do this in the New Covenant (not being bewitched like the Galatians) is to abide in Him (His presence) :)))
And the “vile thing” that the Lord reveals is how our view or beliefs have distorted the Truth and ultimately serve a lie, wether this be to our indulgence or an asceticism (which we are also admonished to be mindful of as an entrapment) .... as it can go both ways, which is why brother Calebs summation, really is that.

Just because it’s “true” for one member of the body of Christ doesn’t necessarily mean it is for all... for example the Romans 14 food law and how that is a matter of our own conscience yet we are to take consideration of our brothers conscience as well but not seeking to control or amend it, simply not offend it by our liberty. There are sure aspects of that principle that would apply here or in any matter of conscience.

To be honest I can appreciate your transparency about your bias to believe this as an already decided subject and basically seeking if someone can “best” the arguments you have used to cement yourself in this particular view. However is this the Lords will for His children?? That they should walk around in a perpetual state of anxiety that someone may accidentally glimpse their genitalia (which itself seems an unhealthy preoccupation) and thereby be drawn into lust because we somehow were not restricted enough in our own actions to prevent it while seeking medical attention??
I mean no offense brother but am sincerely asking you if this concern was born in heaven and if so then there’s your answer,... if not then all the confirmations in the world from Savannah citing the traditions and of men to myself coming into concordance with your view would not make it true...
So I’m hoping to suggest the way and means of God bringing His children into a fuller knowledge of His will is primarily (in the New Covenant) the role reserved for the ministry of the Holy Spirit 🙏🏻


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Fletcher

 2020/5/9 8:35Profile





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