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Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
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Whittier CA USA

 How Spurgeon Responded During a Severe Epidemic in His Midst

C.H. Spurgeon did not cower down during a severe Cholera outbreak in his midst. He continued ministering to people in person, from house to house, even as he saw many die in front of him and conducted many funerals. He sought to be faithful to God’s prescribed will and trusted God to protect Him as He saw fit. Here in the US, we’ve not come anywhere near that in terms of severity right in front of us; yet I hate to say it, but I believe a huge number of Christians, and in particular the vast majority of pastors and/or elders and leaders, have given in to unfounded fear; they’ve obeyed unjust and unbiblical government sanctions, while disobeying certain biblical mandates, such as calling for the assembling of God’s people together in person, administering the Lord’s Supper, performing baptisms of new converts, and the laying on of hands in prayer. The following are quotes from Spurgeon describing the situation:

“During that epidemic of cholera, though I had many engagements in the country, I gave them up that I might remain in London to visit the sick and the dying. I felt that it was my duty to be on the spot in such a time of disease and death and sorrow…..All day, and sometimes all night long, I went about from house to house, and saw men and women dying, and, oh, how glad they were to see my face! When many were afraid to enter their houses lest they should catch the deadly disease, we who had no fear about such things found ourselves most gladly listened to when we spoke of Christ and of things divine….

At first, I gave myself up with youthful ardor to the visitation of the sick, and was sent for from all corners of the district by persons of all ranks and religions; but, soon, I became weary in body, and sick at heart. My friends seemed falling one by one, and I felt or fancied that I was sickening like those around me. A little more work and weeping would have laid me low among the rest; I felt that my burden was heavier than I could bear, and I was ready to sink under it.

I was returning mournfully home from a funeral, when, as God would have it, my curiosity led me to read a paper which was fastened up in a shoemaker’s window in the Great Dover Road. It did not look like a trade announcement, nor was it, for it bore, in a good bold handwriting, these words: “Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the Most High, thy habitation; there shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.”

The effect upon my heart was immediate. Faith appropriated the passage as her own. I felt secure, refreshed, girt with immortality. I went on with my visitation of the dying, in a calm and peaceful spirit; I felt no fear of evil, and I suffered no harm. The Providence which moved the tradesman to place those verses in his window, I gratefully acknowledge; and in the remembrance of its marvelous power, I adore the Lord my God.”

Source: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/.../spurgeon-ministry.../


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Oracio

 2020/5/3 12:54Profile
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 Re: How Spurgeon Responded During a Severe Epidemic in His Midst

Respecting the conscience of others and the decisions they make because of it is important also. If you feel free to go out and carry on as usual that is you and your conviction. It can't be a one size fits all blanket thrown over the whole church. I'm hesitant to reply here because I know where these posts can go. In spite of what they may believe personally on this issue, shepherds and elders are charged to look out for and guard their flock. Their decision of whether to meet together or not has to involve more than just their personal opinions and preferences. Because of the yet many unknowns of this virus, wisdom in my opinion would seem to dictate being safe rather than sorry. Things are beginning to open back up anyway as more are beginning to return to at least a semblance of normalcy.

"Beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak."

"But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience. you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble." ( I Corinthians 8:9, 12-13)

If casting aspersion on my brother's decision to stay at home during this pandemic causes my brother to stumble, then I will never again do so.

Food for thought.

Thanks.


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David Winter

 2020/5/3 13:47Profile
Oracio
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 Re:

Hi David, you wrote

Quote:
"Beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak."

"But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience. you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble." ( I Corinthians 8:9, 12-13)

If casting aspersion on my brother's decision to stay at home during this pandemic causes my brother to stumble, then I will never again do so.

Food for thought.

Thanks.


Respectfully, those scriptures you shared have to do with things of preference among believers. Yet nowhere are we told that biblical duties like assembling in person for mutual edification, performing baptisms of new converts, and partaking of the Lord's Supper are matters of mere preference among believers.


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Oracio

 2020/5/3 13:55Profile
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 Re:

I do regret the strong tone of my op in my introductory comments. I had posted them on my FB page but edited and revised them as follows:

Quote:
During a severe epidemic, C.H. Spurgeon continued ministering to people in person, from house to house, even as he saw many die in front of him and conducted many funerals. He sought to be faithful to God’s prescribed will and trusted God to protect Him as He saw fit. Here in the US, we’ve not come anywhere near that in terms of severity right in front of us



I do want to say that I do have sympathy for pastors and church leaders in light of the fact that we've never experienced anything like this in modern times.

The governing authorities initially asked churches to cooperate with their guidelines and ordinances for a few weeks, but they continue to prolong things.

Eventually, if it becomes more clear that there are nefarious reasons for forbidding biblical practices, I think many will have to really decide who they'll obey, whether God or Caesar. Many churches in China have had to make that decision and many underground churches have made the right choice, while many Three-Self churches have compromised.


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Oracio

 2020/5/3 14:14Profile
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 Re: How Spurgeon Responded During a Severe Epidemic in His Midst

Hi Oracio,
In fairness Spurgeon today would have stopped ministering temporarily as directed.Cholera is not passed human to human in the same way as Covid .Its passed by eating contaminated water or food .If Spurgeon had the Knowledge that he could cause more death by his ministry he would have chosen to stop.He had a logical train of thought that led him to believe he was doing the right thing in carrying on in ministry.Today he would have a logical train of thought that would stop from ministry.Pastors and Elders are doing the right thing at the moment,staff

 2020/5/3 14:19Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
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 Re:

Hi Staff, I don’t believe the comparison is as apples and oranges as you think brother. But my main point was to point out the courage and boldness of Spurgeon amid deaths left and right in front of him, while many shrunk back in fear.


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Oracio

 2020/5/3 15:27Profile
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 Re:

Hi Oracio,
They are very different diseases and the knowledge now has greatly increased.No doubt Spurgeon was showing fearless courage and boldness but Pastors leaders now are not shrinking back in fear but out of good stewardship with the knowledge that they may cause more harm rather than good.Spurgeon today would not carry on in ministry ,fear wouldnt come in to it .It isnt about fear or courage ,staff

 2020/5/3 17:29Profile
Oracio
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 Re:

Hi Staff,
From what I've read and understood so far, cholera can easily spread during a food-born outbreak even today, thus presenting a high risk of infection anywhere. Spurgeon saw it as something completely out of his control and trusted God's sovereign hand of protection. This coronavirus is similarly out of control regardless of these droconian, totalitarian, communistic, orwellian, dyspotian measures being implemented. Scientific studies and data have shown the high prevalence of the virus and the mortality rate being similar to the seasonal flu'a mortality rate.


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Oracio

 2020/5/3 17:58Profile
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 Re:

Hi Oracio,
The thing is that today Spurgeon would have seen the spreading of the virius as completely under his control and he would have known that he was risking other peoples lives and would have not ministered.Spurgeon would not have minded his own health but would have minded other peoples.
On the Mortality rate compares to the flu :
This is only true if we had mitigated ie if we had gone about our daily lives ,not social distancing,hand washing etc it would have been hundreds of thousands not thousands.
The Trump admistration had said earlier in the spring that the death rate from seasonal flu is around 30,000 a year and we are at 65,000 already with Covid.If we had not mitigated then it would be a great number of times more.I cant buy into either of your arguments.The right thing to do is to follow guidelines as much as possible and this only becomes orwellian later down the track,we are jumping the gun ,its only been a couple of months,staff

 2020/5/3 18:21Profile
Oracio
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 Re:

Quote:
The thing is that today Spurgeon would have seen the spreading of the virius as completely under his control and he would have known that he was risking other peoples lives and would have not ministered.Spurgeon would not have minded his own health but would have minded other peoples.


I don't know bro, for you to say that Spurgeon would have seen this situation as completely under his control sounds pretty presumptuous.

Quote:
On the Mortality rate compares to the flu :
This is only true if we had mitigated ie if we had gone about our daily lives ,not social distancing,hand washing etc it would have been hundreds of thousands not thousands.
The Trump admistration had said earlier in the spring that the death rate from seasonal flu is around 30,000 a year and we are at 65,000 already with Covid.If we had not mitigated then it would be a great number of times more.I cant buy into either of your arguments.The right thing to do is to follow guidelines as much as possible and this only becomes orwellian later down the track,we are jumping the gun ,its only been a couple of months,staff


Actually, at first they were projecting some 265,000 total US deaths, with social distancing guidelines being complied with. Now they've lowered that number to 74,000. Look it up and you'll see.

Regarding the 2017-2018 flu season, the CDC had said there were about 80,000 US deaths from the flu, but they eventually lowered it to about 60,000 max for that fall and winter season.

Just yesterday the CDC lowered the total current covid-19 US death toll from 60,000 to 37,000.

Edit added: Correction, at the end of March the White House projected 100k to 240k US coronavirus deaths even with stringent social distancing guidelines being adhered to.
I thought for sure I had seen the 265k figure somewhere but couldn't find it when I looked for it.


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Oracio

 2020/5/3 18:46Profile





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