| Re: |
Brother Fetcher, I am really enjoying this conversation, we both are enjoying the great freedom this country offers, but we both come and see things from different perspective. Again I highly appreciate your view point.
Ok then by your perspective regarding “forced vaccines” that we should “just take it” if it is no longer an option to opt out...
Yes, just take it without questioning the hidden things about vaccines. No medicine is 100% fool proof. Everything is based on statistics, if a vaccine as statistically higher degree of benefits over side effects then it is approved.
would then you also hold that Joseph and Mary should’ve “just taken it” when Herod decreed all male babies be killed
I do not believe we are comparing apples to apples here. Government is not asking us to kill our children by giving vaccines. It is just the suspicion of few based on some conspiracy theories. Vaccines are not poisons, it is given for all children. I believe when forced by law, a law abiding Christian should accept and take it without questioning. All my Children were given their vaccines on time, but my fellow brother in church has not given vaccines to any of his 8 children. I still respect his faith and the freedom he has to choose.
I recently read an article that called vegetarian diet as unhealthy for human body. We all know the studies done on meat consumption and its side effects. Now if Vegetarian diet is also harmful then do we sit hungry? If we go behind every study and conspiracy theories floating around then we cannot live without anxiety.
I believe as Christians we have a moral responsibility to take vaccines and join with rest of the human race in eradicating diseases. Vaccines have successfully eradicated many dangerous diseases, Polio for example.
yet and still there were a few who were brave, courageous, self less, self sacrificing, who gave their lives and the lives of their children believing in something greater than themselves, namely freedom- all knowing full well that the very freedom for which they were being sacrificed, would by many be used to further indulge their selfishness tho they, like Jesus, did it anyway 🙏🏻
So while you will get no quarrel with me for referring to the “spoiled Americans” it would be an unfair characterization not to also mention the selfless ones who have everything believing God would honor their sacrifice of faith,... cause He did 😇
I do not believe you still understood my point here. I am very thankful for the freedom that USA stands for. I also believe that it is Biblical to have such freedom. I have nothing against the founding fathers who gave up their life to buy this freedom. I do not call them spoiled Americans.
But I call the Christians in America of this generation as Spoiled Americans. They take this freedom for granted and fight to keep it alive. This I believe is fighting with flesh and blood which is taking their attention away from real spiritual battle. That is why Divorce is high among Christians in USA, most of them have not raised their Children as believers, it is all because of their so called Patriotic fight for freedom attitude. What is the use for fighting for an earthly freedom when one has lost his family and children to Satan and his kingdom?
Only Freedom that a Christian should seek is freedom to worship his God in peace (1 Tim 2:2), everything else is bonus. If USA takes our freedom to do certain things in our own way then may it be. We should not fight for it.
Jesus called the man who wanted to rightfully fight for his own inheritance as greedy (Luke 12). How much more are Americans Greedy to fight for their freedom today.
Honestly one would have a very difficult time convincing me that Jesus, Peter, Paul, James etc... would be in agreement that they should cease church fellowship and social distance because it was suggested or ordered by a health care agency or government official.
The enemy will always find a way to convince us we aren’t supposed to be meeting together,... wether by creed, law, medical advisories or social responsibility- but remember he’s a liar ;)
I absolutely believe Jesus would have adhered to the social distancing because that is commonsense. Jesus lived by commonsense. He did not walk openly in Judea because the Jews were seeking to kill him. He stayed away from the feast because of death threats. But only when his father asked him to go, he went. Else he lived by commonsense. He did not go to Judea and fight saying it is my freedom to teach, you should not kill me!
It is commonsense to follow social distancing. Just like it is commonsense that prevented Jesus from jumping from temple when Satan tempted him.
The Jesus I know told that his kingdom is not of the world, so he will not fight for any earthy freedom!
| 2020/4/30 17:37||Profile|
| Re: |
I would like to humbly suggest to you that we are not "spoiled" by the freedom we have. If that were the case, why would everyone be so willing to give it away? I DO think america is spoiled by wealth. I think they are spoiled by success. I think they are spoiled with laws that don't have harsh consequence. But freedom? Brother, I would suggest to you that we'll have freedom that far surpasses this in heaven, and in no way will we be spoiled.
You know what corrupts this freedom? Sin. Sin corrupts it. It is also temporary, because I know for certain nothing in this world will last. It will all melt away in fervent heat.
So here is how I suggest we approach this: America has freedoms that other countries don't. We should be using these freedoms for the advancement of the Gospel while we have them. Take every advantage of what we have for the growth and expansion of the kingdom. Countries like India, where there is a horrendous class system should take advantage of what little freedoms they have and spread the Gospel. They should do what Scripture says, regardless of the consequences to them. They should fight for the innocent, protect the weak, and honor the Lord by advancing the Kingdom. There is no need to think that the Lord is anymore angry at America for its freedoms than for other countries for their lack thereof. No need to argue about who is better. It's different. That's all. Just different. You see in acts Paul having to navigate all this sort of stuff. Follow his example. He used what laws there were to his advantage--like revealing his Roman citizenship to keep from getting scourged.
As far as being forced to take vaccines. I'm not doing it. There is only one shepherd who can herd me around and that's Jesus. I answer to him alone. I will obey the government in all their laws, but they don't own my body. Forced vaccines, forced abortions (china), forced family separation (communist countries), forced education (Europe & communist countries), forced sex (muslim countries), forced bible confiscations, forced meeting cancellations (everywhere), etc. Christians ought to refuse these things, especially when it is a violation of the Temple of the Holy Spirit. I think forcing me to take a vaccine is sinister, especially since MANY vaccines are made from cells gathered from aborted children. It's NOT a good thing. It is evil. I will not take them.
| 2020/4/30 21:05||Profile|
| Re: brother Sree |
As usual you have well thought out positions and conclusions and that is a reflection of the honor with which you express you views - as a brother in Christ it is a pleasure to converse with you on most any subject :)
It never fails to amaze me how fellow believers can consistently come to such a variety of conclusions from the same scriptures when applied to our life experiences and personally I view it as a strength-
An example is our different perspectives on Christ Jesus and His responses to the conditions He faced as we navigate our walk of faith -
An example of this contrast in scriptures can be found in comparing Daniel and David. Both were devoted to the Lord yet they lived out their faith in completely different ways, with (from my perspective) Daniel being the epitome of reasonableness and discipline whereas David was a bit more “untamed” - an example of this contrast - Daniel would not even drink a toast in the Kings court at his own promotion which was somewhat disrespectful to the King and we find David eating the showbread and dancing naked publicly as the ark was brought back to Jerusalem,... a thing I can honestly not even imagine in any circumstance seeing a character such as Daniel doing... and yet the Lord loved, blessed and used both mightily!
The diversity is at times astounding when comparing the different biblical characters-
In saying that, though we see it differently, even using the same passages of scripture to draw out our points, they aren’t incompatible,... just different and that is the basis of striving for unity that the apostle Paul so often encourages in his appeals to see strength and opportunity in our diversity:)
Neither of us will be likely to change the others mind on any of this so to press further would indeed be striving in the flesh and nothing godly will come from that- so tho we may not agree we still have a deeper bond that unites us, namely our common faith and that (to me) is more important than a difference of opinion in earthly matters 😇
Blessings to you and may your faith continue to grow and glorify Christ!
| 2020/4/30 21:45||Profile|
| Re: |
Havok: You made some great points and some good arguments.
Truth is...Indians...come to America because the freedoms here grant them ability to succeed.
So it is with every other national that enters our borders.
getting out of poverty...if poverty were godly why would God's promise be a deliverance from it?
If success were ungodly why would God promise to give it to us?
As you said so well, sin in men exploit the goodness of God's graces. Men in sin, think well to get rid of greed lets kill capitalism and opt for socialism.
Lets get rid freedoms and opt for government control
let get rid of success and opt for disappointing hardship and frustrations.
But no one in reality opts for any of these things, they opt for removal of freedoms because their own freedoms or agenda is hindered by "others" freedoms, in short they happily kill the baby in order to obtain their new bathwater. Then they find some argument in greed, freedoms, religious failures, individual errors and conclude the real answer is destroy freedom for others and find a way for their freedoms to rule others.
This is always the way of the dictator and cruel king, what's right is what he says is right. Marxism is alive and well, living in new clothes and with the MSM helping spread its influence to our ignorant and silly youth.
| 2020/5/1 12:15||Profile|