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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : Will He dump the USA?

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Lordoitagain
Member



Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 611
Monroe, LA - USA

 Will He dump the USA?

You know that gut feeling you get when you get totally “dumped” by a person who you thought really cared about you? Previously they talked to you frequently about things that they knew you were interested in, but suddenly they won’t even answer if you call them on the phone, nor return your call.

Unfortunately, that is where the USA is in its relationship with Almighty God. When Christians get treated that way, we have to pray for healing of the heart so that we can continuously forgive and obey the words of Our Lord: “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you”. (Matt. 5:44).

God is much more patient than we are as humans. There was a time when America was excited about God! We held great evangelistic crusades, spent hours in prayer, and sent many missionaries around the world. God poured out wealth and blessing upon this country. For many decades now we have not only been ignoring His calls, we have turned our crusades and campaigns in other directions. Instead of filling churches and spending hours in humble gratitude in His presence, we fill sports arenas, beaches, night clubs, prostitution halls, porn events online, etc. We have been using God for His benefits for a long long time now. The love and devotion that was manifested to Him by past generations is disappearing. The wealth that He poured upon us so that we could evangelize the rest of the world has been spent in other directions sowing to the flesh and not to the Spirit.

God doesn’t have a covenant promise with the USA as He has with Israel. When His patience runs out and He finally dumps us like we have dumped Him, we will be worse off than any third world country. Our ONLY hope as a nation is to pray for ONE MORE revival of repentance as our nation has had in the past, and a return to honoring and pleasing Him with all our hearts.


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Michael Strickland

 2020/4/20 10:21Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3305
Texas

 Re: Will He dump the USA?

”Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
C. S. Lewis


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Bill

 2020/4/20 11:20Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5587
NC, USA

 Re:

Michael-

What makes you think that God cares about the USA as a nation?

True Christians do not idolize the things you mention. Obviously wicked people do.

The goal of a Christian is to further God’s kingdom. That is not the goal of the USA, nor does God expect them USA to do that. He commands all men to repent. The USA is not a person.

God is concerned with the people that live in the US and He will judge individuals on their merits.


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Todd

 2020/4/20 14:23Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2067


 Re: Will He dump the USA?

OP said,

"God doesn’t have a covenant promise with the USA as He has with Israel."

______________________


God has no Covenant promise with the USA and its American citizens, nor has He a Covenant promise with the nation of Israel and its citizens.

If you're using Israel synonymously with "those who are of faith"(Gal. 3:7), then yes, He does have a Covenant with Israel.

Matthew 26:26-28

While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 9:13-15

For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that their bodies are clean, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, purify ourf consciences from works of death, so that we may serve the living God!

Therefore Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, now that He has died to redeem them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

1 Peter 2:9,10

But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

__________________________________

There's only one Holy Nation and one Holy people. They're those who have believed, and whose sins are taken away by the blood of the Covenant.

Galatians 3:7 Romans 3:28,29

Know therefore that those who are of faith are the children of Abraham....

A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God.

 2020/4/20 21:27Profile
Lordoitagain
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Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 611
Monroe, LA - USA

 Re:

Jesus Himself dealt with entire cities.

Mat 11:20  Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: 
Mat 11:21  Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 
Mat 11:22  But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 
Mat 11:23  And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 
Mat 11:24  But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. 

Read the prophets of the Old Testament. you will see that God dealt with entire nations.

Psalm 9:17  The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. 

The USA is a nation that has for the most part forgotten God. If there is not a widespread repentance in this nation there will be widespread destruction... What is sown is reaped ... as individuals, as families, as cities and as nations.

You should read some of Wycliffe Bible Translators' stories. When God's Word gets translated into a people group and revival comes to that people group, the changes are amazing.

In 2016 I passed through Almolonga in Guatemala. When that town as a whole had revival and was transformed, miraculous things happened:

https://youtu.be/QTDK_L-X6tk

YES God deals with entire towns, entire people groups and entire nations. He calls for repentance. If there is repentance, sometimes there ends up being great blessing. There have been several great revivals that have swept through the USA in the past transforming the majority of its inhabitants. The reason that I mentioned: "God doesn’t have a covenant promise with the USA as He has with Israel." is because some Americans mistakenly think that God is somehow bound to the USA ... to keep blessing it in spite of its rebellion ... The only reason that Israel wasn't wiped out of existence on several occasions is because of the covenant that God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. My point is that there is no such covenant with any other nation nor people group. When His cup of wrath gets full for ANY Sodom and Gomorrah, He will bring destruction. If there is not widespread repentance in the USA there will be destruction here.

Eventually, God will bring destruction to the entire earth...

2Pe 3:9  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 
2Pe 3:10  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 


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Michael Strickland

 2020/4/20 23:55Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3305
Texas

 Re: Michael

Quote:
Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Michael, the USA has NOT forgot GOD, they're millions of Christians here in the USA that serve the Lord in many different ways everyday. You should really turn off MSM and physically look around you, I see and hear wonderful followers of Christ in my travels everyday. You can post all the scriptures you want, and they may apply to some, but I don't believe God was stereotyping, when these scriptures were written. Why do SOME Christians, feel the need to stereotype, are they so blinded by MSM they can't see the good anymore?


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Bill

 2020/4/21 8:55Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2067


 Re: God's dealings


Michael,

You said,

"God deals with entire towns, entire people groups and entire nations. He calls for repentance. If there is repentance, sometimes there ends up being great blessing...What is sown is reaped ... as individuals, as families, as cities and as nations."

I agree 100%

You said,

"The USA is a nation that has for the most part forgotten God."

I agree 100%

You said,

"My point is that there is no such covenant with any other nation nor people group."

I agree 100%.

You said,

"The reason that I mentioned: "God doesn’t have a covenant promise with the USA as He has with Israel." is because some Americans mistakenly think that God is somehow bound to the USA ... to keep blessing it in spite of its rebellion."

I agree 100%. Some Americans certainly do think that, and they are 100% wrong.

Thanks for clarifying your point.

 2020/4/21 15:45Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5587
NC, USA

 Re:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Matthew 21:31-32

He isn’t separating nations he is separating individuals.

Do you really think God recognizes national borders? Is he really comparing Canada to Egypt, or Columbia to Lichtenstein? If so, on what basis?


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Todd

 2020/4/21 18:59Profile
MichaelLiao
Member



Joined: 2011/4/24
Posts: 201
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re: Will He dump the USA?

Dear Brother Michael,

(I also happen to be Michael by the way....cool! Awesome name haha!) Grace and peace to you in our Lord Jesus Christ, brother. Brother, if I may convey something that is within my heart to you in the spirit of love and grace towards you, I completely understand your point of view. I was once in that mindset that perhaps the judgment of God has fallen on America because of sin or because of a lack of seeking God. Sidenote: I'm from Canada by the way. Therefore, the justice of God must be implemented against unrighteousness. Like it's read in Romans 1 about how the world suppresses the truth about God. And I acknowledge you as a brother in the Lord who desires righteousness not only for yourself but for others around you and your nation. Therefore, I honour you in that pursuit. I am sure of your genuine desire to honour the Lord Jesus Christ in all that you do. But, if you may allow me to share something with you in order to benefit your soul, please give me these few minutes as I share from my experience.

I believe that the love of Jesus Christ which surpasses all understanding can also cover a multitude of sins. God does not give up on people so easily. To say that He does would be nullifying how truly good and gracious He is. We have to remember that God's kindness is what leads to repentance according to Romans 2, not the threatenings of God. If people are repenting because they are threatened with hellfire, then they would not be repenting for the right reasons. It's just fire insurance. Brother Paris Reidhead in His powerful sermon "Ten Shekels and a Shirt" talks about how we should be repenting on biblical terms again - for the glory of God and not because our skin is about to be burned.

I repent because of the glorious grace that has been given to me, not because I have to try and get things right in order to avoid being dumped by God. His everlasting and unconditional love for me is what motivates me to not sin. I love because He first loved me. He's my Father, my Christ, the lover of my soul. To have a God who loves me when I'm good, but then dumps me when I am bad falls short of the Gospel of Grace because then it's about, "How excited about God am I today? How am I performing today? Am I going to church enough, reading my bible enough?" Which leads to, "Am I enough for God?" And the answer is through Jesus Christ ALONE we are enough. Not by works of the law are we declared righteous and acceptable.

You had mentioned:

[God is much more patient than we are as humans. There was a time when America was excited about God! We held great evangelistic crusades, spent hours in prayer, and sent many missionaries around the world. God poured out wealth and blessing upon this country. For many decades now we have not only been ignoring His calls, we have turned our crusades and campaigns in other directions. Instead of filling churches and spending hours in humble gratitude in His presence, we fill sports arenas, beaches, night clubs, prostitution halls, porn events online, etc. We have been using God for His benefits for a long long time now. The love and devotion that was manifested to Him by past generations is disappearing. The wealth that He poured upon us so that we could evangelize the rest of the world has been spent in other directions sowing to the flesh and not to the Spirit.]

Well, does God love those people? Can our Lord Jesus love the prostitutes, people in sports arenas, night clubs, and people on those porn events? Because if we are sitting here busy condemning what is happening rather than loving these people out of their sins, then are we not any different than the Pharisees who kept sinners and tax collectors at a distance while judging them under their breaths thinking that they are better than them. Sure, people may not be as excited about God as back in the day, but let's not forget that there was slavery of Blacks in America in the name of Christianity back in the day too. Native Americans were slaughtered in the name of Christianity back in the day. If I want to believe God's judgment, why does slavery not warrant that judgment against the USA? But, we keep hearing preachers say that homosexuality and abortion bring that judgment. So, slavery is not enough to destroy America, but homosexuality is? Is school shootings enough to bring about God's judgment because of loose gun laws in the country? I see some people bringing guns into their churches and I wonder if that is godly.

Part of the reason why people are less excited about God is that there are legalistic churches in America that preach law instead of the genuine Gospel, which actually aggravates the immorality. People become so burdened with the law that they actually feel like they can't be good enough for God, and they throw in the towel. That's why people in the Old Testament failed because the Old Covenant was not able to deliver people from their sins and idolatry. That's why in the so-called Bible-Belt where people seem to be all about Jesus has one of the highest murder rates, STD rates, teen pregnancy rates, domestic violence rates in the country. And this breaks the heart of God because God had always wanted to show them His love in Christ, but we have been terrible witnesses to that reality. We make God into our own image and He winds up as being fussy and rude and narrow-minded and judgmental and legalistic and unloving and unforgiving as we are!

Please do not misunderstand me, brother. There are judgments revealed in Scripture. I am not denying those texts. Amos is definitely an example. But, God still works to restore Israel after that judgment in Amos 9 where He says He will repair the breaches. He will repair the ruins. Meaning that even after all that, He still continues His love for them. I don't deny that there are consequences for our sin. But, I also don't deny the continuous love that He is. For God is love! (1 John 4:8)

Brother, I am sure the Lord Himself has been extraordinarily patient and loving towards you in your walk with Him. I know you are deeply loved by Him. I would hate to see that just because one day you performed poorly, you're going to have this image that God is going to dump you - the individual. When you see how deeply loved you are, it doesn't lead to licentiousness. It leads to true righteousness and love from the heart. I wouldn't want any false condemnation to come to you because of the days you fail. I wouldn't want to see that for America either. There are Christians in America who are genuinely following Christ, so we don't want to make sweeping generalizations. I don't think God would just simply give up on a nation. Biblically speaking from a New Covenant perspective, we the Body of Christ are the New Israel, circumcised in the heart, the Nation of a Royal Priesthood. God is ultimately after a Heavenly Nation, the New Jerusalem which is His Bride. "For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the City that is to come!" (Hebrews 13:14) God loves us out of our sin. Deterrents and threats never work. It only pushes away the heart and leads to behavioral modification and not Holy Spirit transformation. The law and judgments only creates a Romans 7 syndrome. Grace is what bids us fly and gives us wings. If we understood the Gospel in such a way that we knew how loved we are in Christ, it would completely revolutionize our spiritual lives and cause us to lay down our lives for the Precious King of Glory who died for us. For while we were without strength, at the right time Christ died for us (Romans 5:6). For me, for you, for everyone on this forum, and even for those who are outside of the Church in America. We are deeply loved by Him, though we didn't deserve it. If we can show that glorious grace to those who are in their sin, the more they will leave their sin and follow Christ. Everything Starts with God, Everything Continues with God, and Everything Ends with God. He's the One who began a good work in us will finish it (Philippians 1:6).

Brother, I love you and I know you are seeking Him. Keep pursuing Christ and make Him your all in all. He loves you unconditionally and dearly. God really delights in you, man (Zephaniah 3:17)! Meditate on His Cross. Allow yourself to be embraced by the Father. And you will see a great transformation in you which will lead to the transformation of those around you.


Your Servant in Jesus' Name,

- Michael Liao


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Michael Liao

 2020/4/21 23:39Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3305
Texas

 Re: Michael Liao

Thank you Brother Michael Laio.


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Bill

 2020/4/22 11:11Profile





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