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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Steve Gregg on Unconstitutional Coronavirus Restrictions and Romans 13

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 Re:

They might just be finding this out about the coronavirus. Many people are working hard to crack it so to speak and new info comes out continually. But get some sunlight I would say.


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David Winter

 2020/4/24 16:19Profile
Oracio
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 Re:

Quote:
They might just be finding this out about the coronavirus. Many people are working hard to crack it so to speak and new info comes out continually. But get some sunlight I would say.


Brother, this has been known for at least a century in the US, as they implemented an open-air sunlight treatment during the Spanish Flu:
https://medium.com/@ra.hobday/coronavirus-and-the-sun-a-lesson-from-the-1918-influenza-pandemic-509151dc8065

From the article:
"Put simply, medics found that severely ill flu patients nursed outdoors recovered better than those treated indoors. A combination of fresh air and sunlight seems to have prevented deaths among patients; and infections among medical staff.[1] There is scientific support for this. Research shows that outdoor air is a natural disinfectant. Fresh air can kill the flu virus and other harmful germs. Equally, sunlight is germicidal and there is now evidence it can kill the flu virus."

I find it very odd that we are not hearing from the mainstream media or the big health organizations about the need for sunlight and fresh air to combat this coronavirus and to boost the immune system and create herd immunity.

These two California-based medical doctors (who administered more than 5,000 coronavirus tests) were recently interviewed by news media and sought to expose this COVID-19 fraud (not a total hoax, but a fraud nonetheless in terms of overreach and unreasonable draconian measures used), a must watch!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaTYYk3HxOc

Facebook version for those with a Facebook account:
https://www.facebook.com/KGET17News/videos/537566680274166/?v=537566680274166

This is another respectable physician weighing in:
https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/494034-the-data-are-in-stop-the-panic-and-end-the-total-isolation?fbclid=IwAR2tdAeEEffeYkTw0UdoaWzT1qP-CHVmfX6kHFn2ve1_TT2GoinKLFWZj9Q

This is a recent "explosive" speech by US Senator and physician Rand Paul after recovering from the virus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKxrPZm8ZkE&fbclid=IwAR3S5hGw4B4NouUiR43XwdHb7p87wLJw3O8h9NBMqDFsdBmC1bLkpfdcfuY \


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Oracio

 2020/4/27 11:06Profile
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 Re: brother Oracio

Yes again this is very much in line with my understanding -
The virus is real but the reaction is not.... and as it was in the garden so to it is today, the enemy seeks and takes opportunity to launch a campaign of lies attempting to deceive all who feed (believe/respond in accordance with) on his word.
As Paul says, “you are a slave to whom you obey”

Historically the enemy will use the pleasure principle to entrap the unsuspecting and while the pursuit of pleasure and the subsequent release of serotonin and dopamine are powerful controllers they are not to be compared to the most powerful control of (unsaved) people....
self-preservation is the king of fear as it not only actualizes a whole different set of chemical and emotional protocols, it also does something far more damaging in that self-preservation (the base control of all sentient life) ultimately serves to demoralize a people who have been artificially brought under its spell. Indeed many are currently under its spell and this is where our faith, the words of our savior become even more valuable than gold -
Self-preservation is (in certain instances) completely at odds with our faith in that “he who seeks to save his life will lose it but he who loses it for my namesake shall find it”.
As stated early on in this situation, we more than anyone on the planet should be unmoved by this and let our lights shine :))) but mostly we huddle and hide, so the world wonders “why bother with Christ when He can’t do anything for His people,... look they seek the power of science and medicine just like us” :(((
This should not be so brethren for we are called to a higher life, a life of faith where our hope is firmly founded in Christ Jesus alone !

If anything this “global situation” has been used to expose the “church” is really powerless to offer the world anything that they can’t find at the doctors office, university or government... and that (I believe) is the real fatality or was it dead (from unbelief) already and this opportunity to shine just turned attention to the fact it’s mostly just an artifice at this point?
Having the form of godliness but denying the power thereof -


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Fletcher

 2020/4/28 9:08Profile
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 Re:

/If anything this “global situation” has been used to expose the “church” is really powerless to offer the world anything that they can’t find at the doctors office, university or government... and that (I believe) is the real fatality or was it dead (from unbelief) already and this opportunity to shine just turned attention to the fact it’s mostly just an artifice at this point?
Having the form of godliness but denying the power thereof/

Perhaps this global situation has also revealed that an officially atheistic communist government can loose havoc on the world Christians and non-Christians alike by letting a virus get past them and loose and then brazenly pass the buck and lie about their responsibility.

As of now, 54,253 people have died of this virus in the United States along with almost one million confirmed cases in this country. It may not be as dangerous as they first predicted but those stats show it is nonetheless very dangerous. In a abnormally bad flu season approximately 20 to 30,000 people die. This virus has done that much and much more in four months or so. More than one church that has continued to meet in spite of the precautions have lost members of their congregation and even pastors have died because of their insistence on continuing to meet together. It's not like this shut down is going to last from here on and it's not like we have lost all sense of spiritually and communion with Christ because of it. This has been a minor convenience compared to what is likely to come. If we have run with the footmen and they have wearied us then what will we do when the horsemen arrive? I don't blame society for being careful and hunkering down for a while until they get a better handle on this sickness is obtained. Jesus said sometimes the children of this age are wiser than the sons of light. The growing protests over the strictness of the lock down in certain areas show society is not just sitting back and being led by the nose. They are restless and want freedom and are beginning to come out. Good. Yet still, every day or day and a half, the death toll from the virus goes up by 8 or 900 people. There's still much room for caution.

Every Christians I know have not lost a iota of faith during all this, just the reverse. The call of faith always contains the call to be wise. I'm not going to go out and handle snakes just because Christ made a reference to them not harming believers. Meanwhile, the brick and mortar buildings may be closed but the true church is not.

The real culprit here is not the church but the communist and atheistic leaders of China. Why lose sight of that and take the church to task?

I'm not trying to be a know it all or involve myself in matters too great for me but just look at things from all angles.




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David Winter

 2020/4/28 10:20Profile
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 Re: brother David

We see the situation completely different... and as such most likely will not come to the same conclusions-

While there is no doubt some of the officials in China bear a significant amount of responsibility, as does the WHO, NIH, etc... but they (last time I checked) don’t claim supernatural endowments as does the “church”... ?

As Paul says, “those outside my house I judge not, those inside are judged”
I could give a hoot what the world does, the world systems are controlled by the “god of this world” so it’s no surprise at all that they would release a contagion wether deliberately or not, it’s a result of their arrogance and desire themselves to have power like unto God.

I understand and respect that you see that the “church” has responded correctly- I could not disagree more ... if I need to explain why then it would be a moot point as the scriptures are clear on this.

Just ask yourself,... What would Jesus do?
Would He be self-quarantined hiding away wearing masks and gloves and encouraging others to do so as well ?


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Fletcher

 2020/4/28 11:18Profile
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 Re:

When I read your post the main thing I felt was a sense of condemnation which is not the same as conviction. Condemnation is exactly what the church does not need now. When Germany was bombing London should the people of London went out into the streets during the bombing because "nothing shall by any means harm you?" I just felt in your strong faith you voiced a little too much condemnation toward others who don't believe the same way. Condemnation does not come from the voice of the Holy Spirit. Being supernaturally endowed does not mean throw away wisdom. This is unchartered territory for most of the church worldwide. What we have done this time we may not do next time. We should be using this time in our prayer closets to cry out to the Lord for relief instead of feeling condemnation. 33 people have died from coronavirus since I made my first post today.

That's all. 'Nuf from here.

Blessings.


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David Winter

 2020/4/28 11:39Profile
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 Re:

Thanks again brothers for the feedback!

David, I'd point out the fact that we're hearing about many physicians being pressured to put down covid-19 as the cause of death when in fact it may not be the case, thus inflating the numbers. And it's crystal clear that most hospitals throughout the nation have been emptied out and doctors and nurses have been furloughed; some hospitals are in danger of closing down for good now due to a lack of volume in patients. There have been many normal citizens going to hospitals in their cities to see for themselves if they are packed with covid patients, and they have filmed the hospitals being essentially ghost towns. I understand that that may not be the case in certain areas like certain parts of New York. But in most states and cities across the nation, hospitals are empty and people can't even get treated for other serious illnesses needing attention even though there are no covid patients there. How does that make any sense?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the numbers are not high or that I disbelieve everything put out by the msm and major health organizations. I'm just saying they have clearly been wrong before, particularly in their initial projected models, as well as in other areas; some msm outlets have even been exposed/caught lying in some of their reporting regarding this virus (I can show clear recent examples from CBS and CNN to name a few); so there is good reason for us not to just blindly believe everything they throw at us without using our God-given discernment and critical thinking.

Regarding the church's response in all this, I do side with the sentiment that the church as a whole has failed in several ways during this crisis, myself included.

I believe that churches with buildings should have started meeting in homes or other places and should not have forsaken the assembling of themselves together on account of this prevalent fear mongering by the lying and exaggerating mainstream media. Live streaming doesn't cut it imho because it does not allow fulfilling certain biblical commands and admonitions requiring in person contact.

This is an open letter from a Canadian pastor written to the church at large, wherein he confesses his own initial failure, shares about his resolve to be more faithful and bold, and challenges us all to do likewise going forward:
https://canadarevival.blogspot.com/2020/04/our-compromise-in-face-of-covid-19-open.html?m=1&fbclid=IwAR1uJiuKddMnXkvgJsaPDMA025LzkNBVp6kMXcfntP7tUUVlm-n2BsMHmaM

Edit added: This is a clear example of the Health Department pressuring doctors to put down covid-19 on death certificates without valid reason, so you can clearly see I'm not making this stuff up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B20klwaqTw&fbclid=IwAR2e05OD50_7hD_kouVXg_n7TogVU5ei7T06zJS_DzkzDfXcMrsVpNrD548

And this is an example of death counts being retracted:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/pa-removes-200-deaths-official-coronavirus-count-questions-mount-reporting-process-data-accuracy


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Oracio

 2020/4/28 13:19Profile
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 Re:

Even if the numbers are lower than reported or even misreported (still open to question), this virus has taken many lives and continues to be dangerous. I am not going to come under condemnation and say I and the church have failed. Nothing like this has come along before and we are learning by experience as we go. One pastor berating the seriousness of the virus on the internet recently died from it. Another pastor lost his right hand man in his church after he insisted on continuing to meet together and this person in his church contacted the virus and passed away. This lock down has not been overly long, some states have reopened and others are about to do so within a week or so. This experience has shown me that the church can continue without being centered on a main building. The buildings are locked yet the true church is not. In the not too distant future things will likely take on a semblance of normalcy again. Above all things, I refuse to feel condemened at this point. Insistence on "my" rights to continue meeting together can affect others so it's not only me I have to consider. If this is as many say just a dress rehearsal for the not so distant future then what will we do then when more pressure is put on the church to stop functioning? It's coming.


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David Winter

 2020/4/28 14:16Profile
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 Re: brother David

Again we see it from totally different perspectives and as such will most likely disagree...
Having said that, I appreciate and respect your opinion I just categorically reject it as having a scriptural basis - nothing personal with you as my beloved brother in Christ:)
To liken this virus unto bombs is exactly the point I was making earlier, which is to say - the virus is real (poses a health threat) but the response/reaction is clearly manufactured and if you can’t see/understand that then I would ask that you seek the Lord and pray that the truth might be revealed to you regarding this matter 🙏🏻

Also was Jesus too harsh (condemning) when He called out the “church” for their hypocrisy?
He wasn’t using sweet language when He called them a pit of vipers and a den of thieves... does that sound convicting or condemning to you?
But again, the very fact that this needs be pointed out is itself the problem which I was addressing.

Consider the source of your information dear brother, if we are filled with the “news” of this world where shall the “good news” find a place in us?
That’s not to say it’s wrong to be aware of the situation we are in but not to feast on it... we who call on the name of the Lord are to feast on Christ 🙏🏻

Incidentally, per the “facts” the virus itself doesn’t actually hurt a person so much as it hacks our autoimmune system and tricks it onto hyper reacting to the presence of the virus by misinformation (lies) and ultimately the body’s natural defenses are what primarily contribute to morbidity-
It seems a comparable thing is happening in society... our hyper reaction to the presence of this health threat is worse than the virus itself ...


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Fletcher

 2020/4/28 14:19Profile
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 Re:

Fletcher (JFW) wrote:

Quote:
Just ask yourself,... What would Jesus do?
Would He be self-quarantined hiding away wearing masks and gloves and encouraging others to do so as well ?


Amen brother. I can't see our Lord or the Apostles and first century disciples reacting this way either on account of this kind of threat. Too many scriptural principles and examples would seem to contradict that kind of reaction imo.

I know they had a law whereby they quarantined lepers under the Old Covenant, but they quarantined the sick, not the healthy along with the sick (which doesn't make sense).


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Oracio

 2020/4/28 14:31Profile





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