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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Steve Gregg on Unconstitutional Coronavirus Restrictions and Romans 13

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staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1509


 Re:

Hi Oracio,
Praying and agreeing for Fletcher too.Sweden is a difficult case because they were really in lockdown since November because of the dark winter months being so northernly and I think that played into their minds ,Could the population after being in all winter take another 3 months of being inside.?
The Spanish flu the second time around was meant have been awful because it attacked young healthy people but not children.The Spanish flu advanced walking distance everyday until almost everyone got it.
One of the statistics that I think is over looked is that altough the death rate maybe 4 percent of those that get it another 14 percent get a really bad sickness and have a really hard time .Thats almost 20 percent or 1 in 5 of people who get it either die or feel very bad due to the illness.
The Lord will make good out of this situation ,praise his name staff

 2020/4/18 22:21Profile
deogloria
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Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 31


 Re:

Thanks Oracio for posting this.
I don't always agree with Steve Gregg's theology.
But I think here he make some good points and the way he reasons from Scripture makes a lot of sense. Only Jesus has the ultimate authority, all others are somehow limited. Where are those limits, that's the main question.
We might get a bit of a wake up call at some stage in the future.
Quote: "I'm sure the devil knows full well about the
power of believers gathering together as a body..."

...and the lack of power if we just "meet" behind screens...

 2020/4/18 23:17Profile
wildhorse86
Member



Joined: 2005/5/20
Posts: 54


 Re:

I find some of this thread interesting. This is an unusual circumstance and I wouldn't claim it as over reaching. I find it painful, I find it depressing at times but see a level of wisdom in in it.

We're talking about a virus that spreads and has the ability to kill that we have no natural defence against. The common flu is easier to weather but the problem is how fast covid spreads and if not contained how overwhelming damaging it will be (more so).

So, what would God have us do? I think to follow what leaders are telling us and that is to keep distanced. I don't think in this case this is persecution. This is common sense to save lives and protect the people God loves.

The pandemic makes it hard for those without internet to see each other, and I acknowledge that but I only have to see the news with USA, China and parts of Europe to recognise the wisdom to staying home until this is over.

People are scared and now is a time to share the gospel and God's light to those we see.

If restrictions were kept in place after this all died down then I would say civil protest and claiming the rights being squashed is a fair argument but at the moment people are dying all over the world by the minute because we don't have the resources.

I do wonder though how many restrictions the government will want to adapt to have a level of control once it's all over though... I have no doubt Satan is having a field day causing chaos and fear, but not all of the fear is unfounded.

God hears our prayers whether they're said side by side or over the phone or Internet.

 2020/4/19 10:15Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I thought the below FB post was interesting. There is quite a bit of different info out there, and it's not too easy to sort through it and decide what information is the most accurate. Sometimes all we can do is compare and weigh it and take our best guess with our God-given discernment.

Translated from Spanish to English, Facebook post by Joshua Enio Jimenez, FB page Cristiano Conservador:

"What has happened; why are so many people dying?

I answer:

I've already explained it a thousand times. But hey, I guess explaining it once again doesn't "kill" me.

1. Panic induced people to go to supermarkets in hordes, this was the place of greatest spread.

2. We are in the seasonal flu season, with or without COVID-19, quite a few people are going to die from respiratory diseases. However, when the media panicked the masses, many who developed the classic flu symptoms (cough, fever, weakening of the body, etc.), were scared and crowded medical centers: this, same as (1) above, led to even more spread, especially in classes vulnerable to the new virus, namely, the elderly.

3. The panicked masses put pressure on politicians to have to do something drastic. And the measures that were approved did not help at all. They closed schools, most businesses, and confined everyone to their homes, children, adults, and the elderly confined to small spaces. What happened? Well, the least-risk groups (healthy children and adults) infected the elderly. What's worse? They are not outside in the sun, which is necessary to produce vitamin D, a molecule much needed for a good immune system. In addition, they are not exercising, glued to their TVs watching the numbers of deaths every day, producing stress and fear, and due to the shortage that the massive shutdowns produced, most were eating poorly, processed foods. Well, all this together caused what? Simple: a drastic weakening of the immune system, especially in people vulnerable to COVID.

4. The governments, in addition to decreeing an almost complete closure of the economy, also channeled the vast majority of resources, both input goods and medical services, towards the treatment of COVID-19. In fact, here in the United States (and I imagine the same thing happened all over the world), the government declared many medical services "non-essential" and created economic incentives for hospitals for each COVID-19 diagnosis. What did this lead to? Well, inescapably the dismissal of many "non-essential" health workers, the shortage of medical products, and insufficient treatment (in some cases, complete cessation) of other serious illnesses in the population. And in addition to this, WHO’s guide, along with financial incentives, motivated hospitals to over-diagnose the number of deaths from COVID-19. Now basically anyone who dies WITH COVID-19 is counted as dying BY COVID-19, which just isn't the same.

Anyway: people are dying for COVID-19, I have never denied that and I have never downplayed that unfortunate reality. But what many people are not seeing, due to the constant media propaganda of fear and the politicization of the crisis, many more people are dying from other diseases that are not being adequately treated at the right time, and a good number of them are registered as COVID deaths.

What's worse? The only thing that will stop this pandemic is immunization: either by means of an effective and safe vaccine or by means of herd immunity. The vaccine will not come until 18 months, and those are optimistic estimates. Some in fact say never, being that the two previous coronavirus strains, SARS in 2002 and MERS in 2012, still have no vaccines (which in fact, people don't even know, that COVID-19 is not the first coronavirus, and in fact, the least lethal of all). So, our only logical way out of this pandemic is herd immunity. However, draconian measures, which in fact completely violate our fundamental rights, largely stop this much-needed immunity from developing.

So, there you have it, the information that the fear-mongering media will not tell you, but that is the reality of what has been happening.

Oh, and lastly, as more and better serological tests are done around the world (antibody tests, not RNA, giving us a much better estimate of the extent of infection), we increasingly find that the COVID-19 case fatality rate is closer to the same rate as seasonal flu; and, in fact, children are more likely to die from influenza (flu) than from COVID-19."


_________________
Oracio

 2020/4/20 21:10Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

A recent case study was conducted by medical professors at Stanford University, in which they tested 3300 residents of Santa Clara County California. They say the results showed evidence that the fatality rate for COVID-19 is actually much lower than we've been told by the WHO and the majority of the mainstream media. They say it seems to be closer to the same fatality rate as the seasonal flu. These are some links regarding that recent case study:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1?fbclid=IwAR2eSfbxPZKFwhJTCtMXTlW__40L80l4BhLOgZqDiUg1QgwuikMTX1CTglE

https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/19/watch-covid19-fatality-rate-in-the-ballpark-of-seasonal-influenza/

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6150670357001#sp=show-clips


_________________
Oracio

 2020/4/20 21:28Profile
wildhorse86
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Joined: 2005/5/20
Posts: 54


 Re:

Sadly, while I think restrictions are necessary in order to help medical systems around the world cope, and I agree that the media is reveling in the creation of fear mongering, I think we're going to see many more deaths as a result of other illnesses not being treated, poverty and suicide.

I'm in Australia where it isn't bad, but I only have to look at what I'm seeing around the world, in the news, on Facebook and in one case a friend who had a relative die of it to see the dire straits we're in.

I'm hoping people realise their own mortality and seek Christ as a result of this. I honestly believe that God is allowing this to happen very much for that reason.

 2020/4/20 23:24Profile
jochbaptist
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Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 299


 alternative view

I hesitantly post this link, but feel that it might contain some vital information for the coming months.

https://www.facebook.com/110765133937555/videos/528912011318864/?t=8


_________________
J Kruger

 2020/4/21 7:59Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

deogloria wrote:

Quote:
Quote: "I'm sure the devil knows full well about the
power of believers gathering together as a body..."

...and the lack of power if we just "meet" behind screens...


Amen. Reminded me of this below FB post I recently came across:

"The Church is not "virtual", it is interpersonal (Acts 2:42); the Church is called not to transmit preaching online, it is called to baptize new converts in water (Matthew 28:19); The Church has been ordered to keep the Lord’s Supper in the fellowship of the brethren announcing the coming of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:24-26), not to suspend this mandate by order of evil men who do not fear Christ; the Church is called to congregate even more faithfully as that Day approaches (Hebrews 10:23-25), not to shut themselves up in their homes due to an unfounded fear by the unbelieving world.
It sounds "politically incorrect" and to many even "irresponsible" and "evil" in these dangerous times; but I tell you the truth and I am not lying, it is the law of our Lord Jesus Christ.
CHRIST is LORD, not Caesar!”
Translated from Spanish to English, post by Joshua Enior Jimenez


_________________
Oracio

 2020/4/21 13:35Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1390
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Oracio

A hearty AMEN to ☝🏼👇🏼 what you shared from FB !

/ The Church is not "virtual", it is interpersonal (Acts 2:42); the Church is called not to transmit preaching online, it is called to baptize new converts in water (Matthew 28:19); The Church has been ordered to keep the Lord’s Supper in the fellowship of the brethren announcing the coming of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:24-26), not to suspend this mandate by order of evil men who do not fear Christ; the Church is called to congregate even more faithfully as that Day approaches (Hebrews 10:23-25), not to shut themselves up in their homes due to an unfounded fear by the unbelieving world.
It sounds "politically incorrect" and to many even "irresponsible" and "evil" in these dangerous times; but I tell you the truth and I am not lying, it is the law of our Lord Jesus Christ.
CHRIST is LORD, not Caesar!”
Translated from Spanish to English, post by Joshua Enior Jimenez /

And may the Lords blessings be upon this brother for his courageous stand in faith 🙏🏻😇


_________________
Fletcher

 2020/4/21 13:59Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2093
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Translated from Spanish to English, FB post by Joshua Enior Jimenez:

“Here's some "explosive news" (at least according to some media headlines) that the White House shared yesterday regarding the new coronavirus. Are you ready for this?

Being outdoors in the sun substantially decreases the half-life of the new virus, basically killing it.

A technical note on half-life: half-life (symbol t1⁄2) is the time required for a quantity of particles to be reduced to half of their initial value. So for example, if there are 1,000 SARS-CoV-2 molecules on the surface of a wall, and their half-life is 10 hours, then only 500 virus particles will be left alive after 10 hours, in the next 10 hours 250 particles will remain, and so on.

Well, according to the latest study, this new strain of coronavirus has a half-life of about 1.5 minutes in direct sunlight, outdoors. What happens in interior and confined places? The half-life is approximately 18 hours. That's right, 18 hours indoors vs. 1.5 minutes outdoors in the sun ... think about that for a minute please.

William Bryan, the chief scientist at the United States Department of Homeland Security, puts it this way, and I quote: "In summary, within the conditions we have tested to date, the virus in saliva droplets survives best indoors and in dry conditions and does not survive as well in saliva droplets ... The virus dies faster in the presence of direct sunlight. "

Question friends, for those who have followed me for a while now, who has told you so far to go outside to bathe in the sun, in order to strengthen the immune system, create vitamin D and not live confined under fear in small space places and without exercise? Yes, "irresponsible me". And well, who has confined you all, in small interior spaces without sunlight, and even fines you or takes you prisoners if you go out to the park to run outdoors in the sun? Yes, the state.

I don't know how much more evidence you need to understand what I'm telling you: EVERYONE SHOULD NOT BE CONFINED in their homes, that only compounds the problem, and as we can see now, this is where the virus best survives. The group that is really at high risk should be protected (our elders, whom we have failed so far), while the rest continue to work and create herd immunity. We already have enough examples, from Japan to Sweden, to Wyoming and Oklahoma.

I hope that soon more and more open their eyes to the truth.”

source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10222675132684248&set=a.10216327606080050&type=3&theater


_________________
Oracio

 2020/4/24 15:15Profile





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