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Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 A listening ear

Is the Corona Virus working?

Brother Robert said so wisely that God shouts when his people stop listening.

Are you hearing the frailty of trusting in material possessions?
Are you hearing the weakness of boasting in self assuredness?
Are you hearing the emptiness of living a life with Jesus as an add-on to a world you love?
Are you hearing the nations cry out?
Are you hearing politics, leaders, ideologies have no power in the face of this plague?
Are you hearing the Church raise its voice?
Are you hearing the word of God instead of the doom of a sinners hope in the flesh?
Are you hearing compassionate words breaking forth from you?
Are you hearing a joyful sound in your own heart?
Are you hearing a concerned family needs your help?

Are you hearing the need for repentance instead of self-confidence?
Are you hearing the call to serve others and act in self-less ways?
Are you hearing your brothers and sister confusion and fears?

A listening ear will hear all of these things...where as only a month ago was anyone hearing any cries at all?

The gospel of grace gives us a hearing ear so as to awaken us from a sleepy heart comfortably rocked to sleep by Devilish falsehoods.
Are you


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Marvin

 2020/4/3 13:55Profile
CofG
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 487
Cambodia

 Re: A listenng ear

Hi Marvin,

I just posted this in the David Wilkerson post but I also wanted to make sure you saw it because you and I had some discussions in the past about covetousness.

Just want to add something for you to consider. The Isaiah 24 passage, as David Wilkerson himself acknowledges is similar in many respects to Revelation 17, 18 and 19. Of course the Revelation passages are the Final Judgement (I'm not saying that's where we are )

The Revelation 17,18 and 19 passages describe a plague coming against "Babylon" and all the enjoyments of her excesses will come to an immediate halt. At that time, God calls out to His people and saints " come out from her my people" so that you do not suffer the judgement. Then, you have the merchants and sea farers who got wealthy from her sexual immorality and selfish luxurious indulgences weeping over their loss.

Finally, you have a multitude of saints celebrating and singing over the righteous judgments of God as Babylon is destroyed by God. i'm not saying David Wilkerson is wrong as the call of God to His people to revive themselves and come out from the indulgences that Babylon is guilty of is a "revival founded in repentance of God's people as they stop their sexual immorality and covetousness". However, Isaiah 24 properly read in tandem with Revelation 18 is very much a revival of God's people passage occurring just prior to a very end times judgement.

What I think is important to note is the application of the Revelation passage even if this is not an end times scenario. God has severely judged in the past in several instances in Scripture specifically against sexual immorality and covetousness. You see that in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and in the destruction of Jerusalem.

Further, Paul warned the Corinthian church not to be like the Israelite people who committed sexual immorality when Moses was on the mountain and also were covetous in the wilderness when they begged to go back to the foods of Egypt and complained about the manna and begged for meat instead. God sent serpents and plagues upon them for their sexual immorality and covetousness.

Likewise, Paul told the Corinthians and Ephesians that sexual immorality and covetousness should not even be named among Christians nor should we associate with a so called brother who was guilty of either. Obviously, God hates sexual immorality and covetousness in the world but He especially hates it among His people.

Perhaps, God is through this virus putting His finger on the same problems/sins. If you had to name two sins that the church has struggled more with than any others it is sexual immorality ( pornography ) and covetousness.

Just to be clear covetousness, which the church generally has left undefined because it is so damning to our lifestyle, is of 3 types. First, when we covet our neighbors property...think King David. Second, when we covet more than God has provided and are not "content" and go after an abundance of possessions. Finally, when we hoard the abundance that God has provided to us which he provided for the needy ..... think the parable of the farmer who built bigger barns for his future instead of giving to the needy in the present.

The last thing I want to point out is that in Revelation 18 there is a group of people who did not participate in the sexual immorality nor did they participate in the acquisition and indulgence of luxury. This group merely traded in these things to feed the sinful lusts of Babylon and got wealthy as merchants. They aren't in the saint group so they are outside with Babylon. This is the scary part of the story. How many people are merchants and tradesmen that make their fortunes selling and trading in luxury and feeding covetousness in our culture?

All that to say, I have no doubt that David Wilkerson is correct. I only think that perhaps the singing and new song he heard in his vision is the one of the saints singing and crying out Hallelujah to God because His judgement of Babylon are right and true which is shocking to us in our current state as a lot of the people we know and care about are "Babylon" as we once were.

I think God is shouting now one way or the other...."come out from her my people, stop participating and making yourselves wealthy from her immorality" Whether this is His final shout or an interim one, I feel confident that sexual immorality and covetousness are the sins of this age and the sin of all ages since the beginning. Lust of the eyes, Lust of the flesh and the Pride of life.

I have rarely heard any church address or even rightly define covetousness. Sexual immorality is easier. Covetousness is harder because it has become a comfortable part of the Christian's life.


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Robert

 2020/4/3 17:19Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5483
NC, USA

 Re:

You cannot define covetousness because it is different for each person. Jesus did not tell every person he met to sell all they had and give to the poor.

That being said I don’t disagree that in general covetousness (or the desire to be “comfortable”) and sexual sin do in fact plague the Church in America.

But it seems sort of sloppy of God to cast this huge dragnet of a virus that mostly kills the weak and elderly in order to correct the comfortable and immoral church.

After all every unsaved elderly and weak person who dies from this virus is being cast into hell.


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Todd

 2020/4/3 17:40Profile
CofG
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 487
Cambodia

 Re:

Hi Todd, the virus not killing youth or middle age could also be viewed as a mercy if in fact this is a judgement.

I'm not trying to assess how the Holy Spirit might convict each individual as they "consider their ways". I'm just pointing out a general principle or principles of what gets God angry at the world and concerned about for His children.

Lastly, look at what the broad impact of the threat of the "plague" has done in shutting down the economic system that runs in large measure on covetousness ( advertisements, products, a drive to make and save as much as you can for your family to have the best of life first and whatever is left for the poor and needy, hoarding food in a crisis). God has effectively shut down the industry of covetousness.

I'm not lacking in compassion for the elderly and those suffering. In spite of the cause of their suffering we are called to comfort those in it as God made clear with His criticism of Job's friends.


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Robert

 2020/4/3 17:48Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5483
NC, USA

 Re:

But if the Church is the true target of God’s arrow it would seem he would be a tad more accurate.

When a parent needs to discipline his child he doesn’t spank the neighbor’s kid.


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Todd

 2020/4/3 19:44Profile
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 487
Cambodia

 Re:

Sorry, I misunderstood.

The message is the same to both. Repent of your sexual immorality and your covetousness. If I'm right about God's message, then it is one the church needs to preach to the world which we can't preach until we have the integrity of faithfully repenting and trying to live it out. Of course as to the world, it needs to repent, come out of the sinful system and have faith in Jesus. The church alternatively, needs to confess its sin and the Lord will cleanse and restore us to fellowship and to walking in the light. Don't mean to sound preachy but that is usually how it works. There is a broad call and a more narrow one both out of the same circumstance.

I didn't mean to imply that this was just a judgement against the church. Actually, the Revelation passage is a judgement against Babylon that the Lord uses to call His people out of. Unfortunately in the last judgement, in spite of the escalating judgement of the bowls,etc. the people of the world are so hardened by their sin, that they refuse to repent. Presumably, God's people have the kind of tender humble hearts that when God calls them to come out ( implying they were too close into Babylon) they lovingly and fearfully respond.


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Robert

 2020/4/3 19:55Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


In regards to God's judgment, as I read scripture there is a central truth about sin that none of us understand as we should...< myself included.

This truth is simple. Sin has long range effects and unintended consequences on others.

When the rebellion happened in the desert, censers were brought up by the leaders...those whom God judged also judged the wives and children too.

The question can be asked "well, God judged a little kid for something he didn't do" That seems sloppy.

But in fact it's not sloppy it is in fact the reason so many seemingly "innocent" parties are hurt when someone sins and they find out later their sins were far more harmful than they imagined.

This judgment and so many others found in scripture involve "innocent parties" that cannot be attributed to anything else but God's design for righteousness and judgment is little understood.


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Marvin

 2020/4/6 13:45Profile





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