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JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1450
Dothan, Alabama

 DID JESUS?

Did Jesus, the express (exact) image of the Godhead dwelling bodily, ever deliberately cause anyone to become sick, injured or have a disease ?




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Fletcher

 2020/3/28 18:04Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 501
Cambodia

 Re: DID JESUS?

He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him. - Colossians 1:15-16


Then the LORD said to him, "Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the LORD? - Exodus 4:11

As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth.
And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. - John 9:1-3

Brother Fletcher,

I think this is a Scriptural answer to your question.


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Robert

 2020/3/28 18:28Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1450
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Robert

How does that verse answer my question?

It’s either arrogant or foolish to say so... as that in every way actually proves quiet the opposite from what you appear to presume-
Put plainly - Jesus healed the man 😇🙏🏻

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

I would that you might consider researching the difference between the old and new covenants since most of not all of your “supposed” evidence is found squarely BEFORE THE CROSS - but perhaps in your view the work on the cross didn’t accomplish what I understand it to ?

In any case - since you desire to engage me on this thread after ignoring my question to you on the previous one... may I ask you and have you answer in your own words please ; do you believe that God would direct or command a New Covenant believer to sin?
Again please answer plainly


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Fletcher

 2020/3/28 20:29Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 501
Cambodia

 Re:

Hi Fletcher

Normally, I wouldn't respond if someone said I was either foolish or arrogant. We all can say something foolish or act arrogant but the ad hominem of character isn't helpful. But, I know you are a brother so I do want to give you my honest assessment.

You asked "did Jesus ever harm or injure anyone?" My answer is that He created the man described in the gospel of Mark to be blind from birth. That is what the Scriptures that I presented to you say. No matter how distasteful you may find my reading of those passages, I
clearly see that Jesus made a man blind from birth with all the suffering and pain that brought to himself and his family who went through that for many years.

Why did Jesus do that ? Because of sin and the curse? Not according to Jesus. This man was made blind by Jesus from birth solely so that God could get glory decades after his birth. I'm ok with that not because I lack compassion for the man, but rather because I trust Jesus and bow before His wisdom.

You said, did Jesus harm or injure someone in the temporal. The answer is yes.

As to the New Covenant question you asked. Did God command anyone in the OT or the NT to sin? No. However, the king's heart and the hearts of all men are like waters in the hands of the Lord and He directs the flows of those waters where He will. I would, only as a suggestion for you, recommend you study some writers and teachers about their views of God's will of command and God's will of decree. I think you will find it very instructive to sort through the very issues that cause you to be alarmed or shocked by what I've written. I don't say that condescendingly to you but rather out of a recognition that I'm not up to the job as much as they are.


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Robert

 2020/3/28 21:01Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1450
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Robert

You wrote: “ Normally, I wouldn't respond if someone said I was either foolish or arrogant. We all can say something foolish or act arrogant but the ad hominem of character isn't helpful. But, I know you are a brother so I do want to give you my honest assessment. ”

Actually that’s not true brother Robert,... there was never any personal reference to your character as you say but in fact I said
“It’s either arrogant or foolish to say so... “

That doesn’t say,... Robert you are arrogant or foolish-

Brother you are easily offended and have difficulty answering the questions asked.... instead you “reframe” the question and or statement adding things to them and then react to your own projection ... sorry if my sayin so offends you but it’s a tactic that I am confronted with on a regular basis and am quite familiar with.... it even has a name or category (psychologically speaking) - it’s referred to as Evasive Verbal Behavior- if you care to you can look into it and if you ask I’ll provide links to medical treaties including a catalog of the varying degrees and the symptomatic tendencies of the B cluster types.

Again I have no heart to offend or argue with you or anyone else however I will not sit by and have the New Covenant Blood wherewith I was purchased be lessened much less made of none effect by someone claiming the name of Jesus- full stop

It’s not you,... it’s what your saying - and it’s not shocking it just grossly misrepresents the God that saved me:) The same one who’s spirit rouses mine in the wee hours most nights ... it’s amazing what you will hear when you’re listening🙏🏻

So according to you Paul was wrong to rebuke Peter because he was a brother? Or any of the other NT. examples of one saint addressing another straightly ? And they used much more direct language especially Jesus 🤷🏽‍♂️

And there is nothing that you are capable or incapable of that another man has, by natural or learned giftings, would be any better to explain (as you say.).. for that is language of the flesh- just consider the spirit of the living God operating in those who were born again in the scriptures, tho they were themselves (in their flesh) unlearned men they nonetheless waxed bold in the spirit and with all understanding presented the truth regarding the spirit of God and their personal disposition had literally nothing to do with it.
Having said that, like you I do enjoy learning from other saints and how the Lord has worked in and thru them, for we are all one body and while I have studied the works of some saints from all ages and doctrines tho not nearly as much as I’d like. In fact that’s how I found SI :) I listened and read for years before o ever signed up and began interacting in this forum.

So one more time I will ask as specifically as I am able so as to make a simple answer all the more reasonable:)

Do you believe that God will direct, lead or command a New Covenant believer to commit sin which causes another believer, who is not physically or verbally threatening them, to die ?

Assuming you’re gonna say “no”

What do you believe (According to scripture) the result would be for the brother who committed the sin unto death if they felt justified (much like Paul before his conversion) and never repented ?

And please accept my apology if my words are sharp, the intent is not to harm you in any way but to represent my faith honestly and plainly. 😇🙏🏻




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Fletcher

 2020/3/28 21:56Profile





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