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CofG
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 494
Cambodia

 Re: Consider your ways, Consider the Way. Time to Work on building His spiritual temple

JFW wrote:


"Still it’s a leap to say God caused this to bring judgement on the ungodly..."

I think you would agree if you thought about it that all calamity is a judgement by God against the sins of mankind.

A question in this case then, is whether God is sending this judgement on the earth as a warning against sin and its consequences like "repent or you will likewise perish" and I think we could agree that at least this warning is true.

The second question is whether this also is a warning to God's people not to put their confidence in this life, in health, wealth and prosperity that is found in temporal life. We have taught much against the prosperity gospel but have done a good job of justifying living out that gospel as somehow consistent with the Christ like walk.

And connected to that question is whether the people of God are too focused on building their own lives, kingdom on earth and establishing their desires, homes and goals in this world instead of looking forward to the city built by God and focusing on building His Kingdom ( and not their own) as their first and highest priority. This I believe is true. Here is God's "warning" through the prophet Haggai:




“Thus says the LORD of hosts: These people say the time has not yet come to rebuild the house of the LORD."
Then the word of the LORD came by the hand of Haggai the prophet,
“Is it a time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, while this house lies in ruins?
Now, therefore, thus says the LORD of hosts: Consider your ways.
You have sown much, and harvested little. You eat, but you never have enough; you drink, but you never have your fill. You clothe yourselves, but no one is warm. And he who earns wages does so to put them into a bag with holes. "Thus says the LORD of hosts: Consider your ways.
Go up to the hills and bring wood and build the house, that I may take pleasure in it and that I may be glorified, says the LORD.
You looked for much, and behold, it came to little. And when you brought it home, I blew it away. Why? declares the LORD of hosts. Because of my house that lies in ruins, while each of you busies himself with his own house.
Therefore the heavens above you have withheld the dew, and the earth has withheld its produce.
And I have called for a drought on the land and the hills, on the grain, the new wine, the oil, on what the ground brings forth, on man and beast, and on all their labors." - Haggai 1:2-11

Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, declares the LORD. Be strong, O Joshua, son of Jehozadak, the high priest. Be strong, all you people of the land, declares the LORD. Work, for I am with you, declares the LORD of hosts,
according to the covenant that I made with you when you came out of Egypt. My Spirit remains in your midst. Fear not.
For thus says the LORD of hosts: Yet once more, in a little while, I will shake the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry land.
And I will shake all nations, so that the treasures of all nations shall come in, and I will fill this house with glory, says the LORD of hosts.
The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, declares the LORD of hosts.
The latter glory of this house shall be greater than the former, says the LORD of hosts. And in this place I will give peace, declares the LORD of hosts.'" - Haggai 2:4-9

There are precious living stones, more valuable than silver and gold that God will shake from the nations if His people will go and build His church as their first and highest priority, if they will go and make Jesus supreme in all the earth. Unfortunately, many of God's peoples' highest priority is building their own kingdoms on earth.

I'm not trying to take advantage of peoples' suffering to push a theological pet doctrine or agenda. We must have compassion on the suffering and comfort them. At the same time, God does speak in suffering, calamity and through His prophets and God has said in 2 Chronicles 36 that His prophetic warnings and even His measured calamities are His expressions of compassion and mercy before there is no remedy left for His peoples' disobedience.

Each can form his own opinion or interpretation for what God is saying in a calamity, but be assured He is speaking in and through it. God has a purpose in this and I do not think God is saying "nothing to see here, peace, peace, this too shall pass". Perhaps God is speaking to each of us individually to consider our ways and to focus on walking in His Way and work on building His Kingdom, His church, His body in the nations so that we can deliver to Christ the reward of His suffering, the inheritance of the nations.




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Robert

 2020/3/27 7:29Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1422
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother David

Please understand that my primary concern is the truth, the person of Jesus and we have been given a glorious gospel by Him, the healing of the nations, to take unto the poor and needy... to the weak and elderly,.... to the fatherless and homeless,... to the lame and leper’s - and yes to those with this Chinese flu virus !

Ours is not a passive gospel nor is it a weak one, for the truth we bear is of God and is mighty to save,... yes even from this Chinese flu virus !
Our gospel equips us to do battle and war with powerful weaponry and we are commissioned to pull down strongholds (interconnected web of lies) of the enemy, taking every thought captive making it obedient to Christ :)))!!!!

We keep sayin we want revival!??? Well the stage is set! The fields are white with harvest!!... but the workers are few -
Revival, the spark - the light of Christ, shines brightest in the dark.
Right now the world is literally being sedated, sequestered under a spell of lies that has cast a spiritual veil over the eyes of those who know not the Lord...
if His children, the children of light don’t take opportunity to fight back, cutting down the lies that ensnare others with the sword of Gods word, His very Spirit!!! Then who will?? And why were we redeemed to begin with if all we do is cower in the corner, huddled in fearful masses just like the ungodly,... just like those who never knew Him or even met Him !???
GOD FORBID!!!
Let us labor while it is still day for night cometh when no one can work-

Let us all ask ourselves this;
If Jesus the Christ were presently walking the earth , would He self-quarantine all fearful and being seen wearing a surgical mask for protection!!????

Guess what? He is on the earth and WE ARE HIS BODY!!! If we bow our knee to this tactic of the enemy we will lose something that cannot be recovered!
I’d rather be spent for His namesake and counted a fool than to be found a spineless, cowardly hypocrite who’s faith is as fickle as the appetites of godless children!
There are some “hours” in time that are more important than others, the scriptures clearly bear this out,... if we shrink back from this encroachment of the enemy.... if we don’t armor up! if we don’t seek His face with the intent on sacrificing ourselves for the advancement of His kingdom at all costs then we have failed His grace and walked not worthy of the gospel wherewith we were called!!

The whole earth groans and travails awaiting the manifestation of the SONS and DAUGHTERS of GOD

and as many as ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, THESE ARE THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD

He saved us for this, to be a light unto the world -
Let us stir up the gift that is in us lest we forget that we have within ourselves the remedy that not only heals those in fearful bondage but brings glory to God!

We’re either gonna be sheep or goats...
#dontbeagoat


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Fletcher

 2020/3/27 7:36Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1422
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Robert

Much of what you wrote finds agreement with the spirit which is within me:)

Having said that - you say that “all calamity” was a from God ...

Not sure that’s something that the scriptures bear out- unless you’re using that word in a more narrow way than it sounds?

For example-
When Pharaoh killed all the first born of captive Israel... that was by definition a calamity... are you saying that our God is the author of thar sin?

No doubt the Lord used it to the good as He can use ALL THINGS but that doesn’t mean He causes all things....

Regarding this particular “calamity” ...
it’s clearly man made and the hysteria surrounding is “artificial” and is itself a web of deception, intent on taking captive and devouring all those whom it can.
So do I believe that our God can and will use this “calamity” to speak?
Yes
Do I believe our God is the author of this “calamity” ?
No
Do I believe our God created and released the flu to bring down judgement on the ungodly?
No

Jesus, so say the scriptures, was the express image of God- the fullness of the Godhead dwelling bodily-
And Jesus brought; healing, hope, peace, comfort, joy, grace, mercy, deliverance and warnings,.. but not calamity and affliction!

Let us be certain of our message lest we lay a snare, a stumbling block before those whom would otherwise joyfully enter His kingdom but be turned away by our word-


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Fletcher

 2020/3/27 8:19Profile
CofG
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 494
Cambodia

 Re:

Brother Fletcher

In a broad and not narrow sense, all murder is a consequence of the judgement of God against sin. God gives man over to a hardened and evil heart as a consequences of sin. So yes, I think Scripture does bear out that all calamity was ordained by God as a consequence of the sins of mankind.

Here's a text that I think bears out the doctrine I am speaking of and actually speaks directly to the murder by men of a first born son:



for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place. - Acts 4:27-28

I don't believe the idea that I shared should be described as a snare but rather a stumbling block


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Robert

 2020/3/27 8:59Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1422
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Robert

Again that passage speaks directly of a predestined plan of God to bring HEALING and SALVATION to the world of sinners by the sacrifice of His Son...

It’s a real stretch to take that passage as a license to say God causes all calamity and sin?
That’s crazytown talk!

So you’re sayin that our God, the Holy One of Israel is the author of the abortion of millions of unborn babies??? That He, Himself is actually controlling it - causing it to happen !???


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Fletcher

 2020/3/27 9:43Profile
CofG
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 494
Cambodia

 brother Fletcher

Perhaps it would be good if I just suggested that Deuteronomy 28 from verse 15 on addresses your point/question better than I could from my own imaginations.
It's lengthy so I won't quote it here but it is quite illumining on this point. Let me know what you think.


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Robert

 2020/3/27 11:04Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1422
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Fletcher

Wow brother Robert!
Seriously???
I’m hoping you aren’t aware of the context of that passage and why the Lord was saying that and to whom He was warning and are not attempting to (with knowledge) pass that off as a current means by which the God of creation deals with the people on the earth? For to do so is to render the cross of none effect and absolutely deny the sacrifice once and for all for sIn- ultimately negating the very blood of the NEW COVENANT withwhich we have been sealed unto the day of the Lord.

Again the cross and the work thereof is the only hope 🙏🏻😇


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Fletcher

 2020/3/27 11:38Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Hi Brother Fletcher:

Reading over your conversation with Robert I wanted to chime in on one point.

In regards to the law, Paul said the law was good and that he had not known sin except by the law Rom 7. Who was Paul speaking to? Devout Jews under Moses care? No, pagan romans who have now become Christians. Paul said this so that the ex-pagans could understand God's law transcends times, peoples and cultures. Yet, so does God's punishments and judgments based on that same law.

Sodom judged and overthrown, Jericho overthrown, pagan kings and their empires...not gospelized but judged based upon the knowledge available at that time.

It is very acceptable to understand God as keeping his holy law intact and valid during this whole time of trial upon the earth while mankind lives on it.

It is not a dismissal of grace and gospel to recognize as did Paul Jesus sacrifice didn't annul the law but validated it and established it as binding upon all mankind. Why because God's grace establishes the validity and terror of the law by showing God's goodness in Jesus receiving the sinners due judgment for breaking that law...all of this you know well.

I think it's fair to use Deut 28 in this current time to reveal God's judgments against sins...as He has always done.


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Marvin

 2020/3/27 15:54Profile
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2154


 Re:

The original thought:

Because we are Americans and our strength and ingenuity is next to none, we will get through this as we have all else that has ever faced us. Because we are Americans. This is what we do.

What politician or national leader has voiced the fact that this attitude that seems a strength of character may indeed be part of the problem at this point? If the church is supposed to come forth and shine right now with the right perspective and the correct voice from on high is this church willing to voice this message - our national pride needs to be broken.

This was the thought behind the original post. A truly prophetic church which most agree we must become may not have a altogether popular message. What do you think?


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David Winter

 2020/3/27 16:13Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1422
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Marvin

Dear Brother I have one question;
Was sin judged on the cross?



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Fletcher

 2020/3/27 16:37Profile





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