Discussing prophecy is not wrangling over words as II Timothy 2:14 says. It is discussing the predictive prophecies of the Bible.

Titus 3:9 says avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, arguments, and quarrels ABOUT THE LAW, because these things are pointless and worthless. Discussing prophecy is not wrangling over the finer points of the Law.

It's been my experience that looking into prophecy and trying to discern what it is saying is one of the more mocked endeavors that Christian can undertake. For some reason it's frowned upon and said to be not worth the time one puts into it. Soteriology, the study of salvation, is not mocked but encouraged. Ecclesiology, the study of who makes up the true church, is greatly encouraged. Yet the study of prophecy is frowned upon in many quarters though the Bible is exceedingly full of predictive prophecies yet to be fulfilled. Personally, I want to know as much about them as possible. Just like other areas of biblical study and knowledge.

deltadom asked some questions about prophecy and I'm glad he is interested in this side of things. Some people replied with different views. This may not in and of itself be quarreling.

/So many think they are experts but completely ignore the basic Bible teaching./

And you then proceeded to give us your "expert" opinion.

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David Winter

The Peculiar Value of Prophecy

The soul of a saint always finds establishment when it can truly repose upon the revealed will of God, when, amid the conflict of human thoughts and human actions, it can be brought simply to "God and the word of His grace." Those who are not so reposing may only look at the storm, but those who, like Paul in the tossed vessel, have had the word of God brought home to their ear can take courage themselves and rely upon the promise of safety even for the guidance of others.

This gives prophecy a peculiar value to the soul of the instructed Christian - he thus is warned of the coming events, but though he sees them he is not cast down, for he knows the issue beforehand. Our present calling is to walk in the midst of human things in the full practical recognition of the glories which have been made known to us as belonging to us in Christ our head, above at God's right hand. Prophecy has been bestowed on us in order that we may know how, in the midst of confusion and the varied forms of Satan's working, we may stand and act as those who belong to Christ. We know as a simple fact how the Church has greatly overlooked this important portion of God's revealed truth. We know also how the enemy has sought to cast a kind of discredit upon every effort which is made either for any to understand and use prophecy themselves, or to give instruction to others therein. But this, instead of leading us to overlook this precious deposit of God's truth, ought to make us the more earnest in not neglecting that which is so important. If discredit be cast upon such investigation it ought to cause us to look more to the God of all grace, that He may vouchsafe to us the teaching of His Spirit that so we may use it aright.

(From "Remarks on the Visions of Daniel" - Ch 9 - by Samuel Tregelles - 1813-1875)

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David Winter

Daniel is one of the books that has a vast amount of different bible commentaries
The interesting thing with bible prophecy is that there are so many people with set charts and the way god does things is completely different
I tried it my first premise to show some of the quotes from how the people from the Dead Sea scrolls

It was literally listening to a sermon from the book of Daniel and prophecy then going back to the verses.

We as Christians tend to pick up so much through osmosis that when we compare it to scriptures it is wrong.

It never occurred to me that the Antichrist divides the land in the bible

If we are to discuss the preterist point of view that all the prophecies were fulfilled historically
We have the problems of Matt 24

Most of the puritans thought that the pope was the Antichrist from William Tyndale to John Owens and Charles Spurgeon
As I have read a lot of the Puritan paperback series
You would tend to as the gospel was lost and Christianity was in mass apostasy there was a view shining lights such as the waldensians

2 Thessalonians 2

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The bible talks about the apostasy producing the Antichrist and then Jesus returning and destroying the Antichrist and the third temple being built.
The Antichrist sitting in the third temple 2 thess 4:2

I really do not mind discussing the whole issue of preterism as I am well aquatinted with Charles Spurgeon and the puritan writers and I really like William Tyndale

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Dominic Shiells

There are different versions of calculating the 70 weeks in Daniel chapter 9. However, certainly fulfilled were:

1. The construction of the second temple.
2. The reconstruction of Jerusalem after Babylonian invasion.
3. The coming of Jesus.
4. The sacrificial death of Jesus.
5. The destruction of the 2nd Temple and Jerusalem and the subsequent end of the sacrifices at the 2nd temple in 70 AD

Prophesies after 70AD:

In Daniel 12:11-12 says,"And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand and two hundred and ninety days, Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days."

In Luke 21:24 the Lord Jesus said, "And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by the gentiles until the times of the gentiles were fulfilled."... and then the events unto 2nd coming.

And to the Jews the apostle Paul further said in Rom 11 verse 8, "God has given them the spirit of stupor...verse 20 "Because of unbelief they were taken off...verse 25" Brethren...lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that hardening in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the gentiles has come in."

What the Talmud Sadhedrin 97b says:

"That is the course that history was to take, but due to our sins that time frame increased. The Messiah did not come after four thousand years passed, and furthermore, the years that elapsed since then, which were to have been the messianic era, have elapsed"...

...The Gemara asks: What is the meaning of the phrase “And it declares [veyafe’aḥ] of the end, and does not lie”? Rabbi Shmuel bar Naḥmani says that Rabbi Yonatan says: May those who calculate the end of days be cursed [tippaḥ], as they would say once the end of days that they calculated arrived and the Messiah did not come, that he will no longer come at all. Rather, the proper behavior is to continue to wait for his coming, as it is stated: “Though it tarry, wait for it.”

This is another sad thing (this is related to the first coming of our Lord Jesus). It is from youtube, this is really a sad thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGz9BVJ_k6s

I watched. Yes, it is sad. Blindness in part has happened to Israel UNTIL...

We need to pray that their blindness be removed even more than praying for the defeat of their physical enemies. If God hid His face from us we couldn't find Him. Neither can they until their blindness is removed.

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David Winter