| Poster | Thread |
| | Mozambique's Revival | | Maybe you've heard of her. I heard of her thru Michael Tyrell (the guitarist of Jason Upton's band) (Michael has his own band too). Heidi Baker and her husband Rolland. Desperation from God. Truly desperate.
I heard one women (who was powerful) said 'after meeting Heidi, i felt i never knew God, so i fasted for 10 days after i met her, Heidi just gives you a spirit of NEED for God'. And later she said 'i thought i was extremly close to God, but after Heidi, i NEEDED MORE OF GOD. I felt in comparision i didn't know the Lord'. This is coming from a women of God.
Michael said 'She is raising the dead, casting out demons, healing the sick, all for the sake of the gospel.'
All in all, she (from what ive heard) is walking FULL of the Spirit and even overflowing at all times. (All, meaning like she is TRULY in Love with God, who makes our love for God look like a vapor).
Here is an article from The 700 Club. and links to her ministry is in the article.
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/news/050622a.asp
Another article here. This is in Rolland's own words. (Heidi's husband)
inthenameofjesus.org
Two words, (from what ive heard) Heidi is characterized as, Desperate and Compassionate. She is desperate for God, like a SUPERNATURAL LOVE for God, i never knew love expanded that BIG. (i know what love is, but this is SUPERNATURAL) Compassionate, she is just serving these kids and people in Mozambique.
Someone said 'Heidi pretty much has the NATION, and she gives it to the Lord'.
Again, i don't know much about her husband, but i bet he is the same way. I hope this encourages all of you about TRUE revival in the world. |
|  2005/7/14 23:25 | | sermonindex
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Online! | | Re: Mozambique's Revival | | Quote:
Again, i don't know much about her husband, but i bet he is the same way. I hope this encourages all of you about TRUE revival in the world.
I firmly believe this is NOT "true revival" and there are many excesses of an eronous kind in these types of ministries. The Word of God is neglected and spiritual experience is everything. I would be very weary looking to this example as something of an foundational stepping stone in my walk with Jesus Christ.
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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| | 2005/7/14 23:37 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Really why?
Thousands are getting converted. Truly converted. |
| | 2005/7/14 23:42 | | sermonindex
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Canada
Online! | | Re: | | This video is taken from the Toronto Airport Fellowship, I find her way of ministering very peculair and unedifying. The way she is always interrupted with spasmodic sounds and words such as WHOOAAA! is quite strange and unbiblical.
October 3, 2003 - Toronto, Canada
Video of Toronto Service
This type of ministry has an appearance of Godliness but really is deceptive in many ways. I would rather be under a bible believing, teaching ministry that seeks first after Jesus Christ and the revelation of Him in scripture.
I don't doubt that God is doing something through this ministry or is using the preaching of His name. But I totally think its a mis-representation of true Christianity and a shame to God's name in the end.
I can't bear to watch over 15 mins of this video. :-(
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| | 2005/7/14 23:58 | Profile | todd
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| | Re: | | I love their ministry and firmly believe it is true revival that they are experiencing in Mozambique. These people are so simple and pure it seems crazy to us Westerners at first. But they have totally sold out to God!
I think they are more biblical than most of us. After all, they are experiencing God and raising the dead while most of us here in the Western Church are going to church week after week talking about Him. I'll take God's manifest presence over good Bible teaching anytime! |
| | 2005/7/15 1:20 | Profile | philologos
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| | Re: | | Quote:
I'll take God's manifest presence over good Bible teaching anytime!
todd
do you really want to say this? How is this different to Jake's position of personal assessment taking priority over scriptural revelation?
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2005/7/15 5:10 | Profile |
| | Re: | | I was thinking about this last night. "Bible or spiritual revelation".
I bet there has been a time in everyone's life where the bible seemed like a desert. A dry land. Even though it IS full of water. Just for some reason we cant find the river to our life at that persent moment.
During those times, friends and random people, or random things (in nature, on t.v. a flyer in the street...etc) have always lifted me up. I'm not dissing the bible, nor am i elevating it above 'spiritual revelation' but putting it side by side. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Any revelation should be able to be backed up with the Word. Simple as that.
When i was around a friend of mine, who was 100% sold out for Christ (still is). He witnessed left and right, he prophesied, he was walking with the Lord, (behind Him for that matter, 'following God'). And i was pierced to my heart, saying 'i need this, i have not even close to a drop of that passion he has for God'.
Yea, i read the bible, but the story of a friend, or the life of a friend in this case, caused me to be a radical Jesus Freak ever since. The bible never did that for me, techonoly it did :-P (WE are epistles to be read by every man/women)
Heidi's woooah is just a different response to feeling God. Some people shout, some people raise their hands, some people wisper, etc..etc (One person in my church shakes, and that actually bothers me, but maybe i could be in the wrong..lol |
| | 2005/7/15 10:25 | | todd
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Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California
| | Re: | | Philo,
I don't see why not. If I am off here I am open to be corrected, but I feel very confident about what I said. I see the Scriptures mostly as a means to an end. Because the letter is dead but the Spirit gives life.
John 5:39-40
"You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these theat bear witness of Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life."
I beleive that knowing God is an experience and it's what I want most of all. Life is not found in the Scriptures themselves, it's in coming to Jesus. That's why there are people who can study the Bible all day every day and never experience or know God.
I don't know who Jake is or what he said. Maybe you could tell me where to find that... |
| | 2005/7/15 10:33 | Profile | philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
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| | Re: | | Quote:
I don't know who Jake is or what he said. Maybe you could tell me where to find that...
Bubbaguy is the name of the artist formerly known as Jake. He is a modern 'Quaker' and whatever I say here he is likely to contest it but his bottom line is that the 'revelations' of the Bible must be subjected to his own 'inner light' and/or reason. This has led him to reject Paul, Revelation and much of the NT.
The question is 'is the blessing biblical'? That is to say is it consistent with what God has already revealed? Is it compatible with NT experience and teaching. Is there an objective way of measuring the 'manifestation/revelation' that I am watching?
I am not afraid of 'lively meetings'. I have probably been in meetings as wild as any that have been reported here on SI. I have jumped up and down until I was dizzy and clapped till my hands bled! For almost 2 years I attended one of the most extreme Pentecostal churches in the UK. (we English are not nearly so phlegmatic as we are often made out to be) I believe passionately in the 'manifestation of the Spirit'. I believe a church must have prophetic thread in its life; although the person who brings it may not call it that. I believe a body without the Spirit is dead; no matter how doctrinally accurate it may be.
However, I repeat my question, 'is there an objective way of assessing phenomena?' We are all inevitably subjective in our personal assessments which is why although I am strongly in favour of the leading of the Spirit in day to day life choices, I am much less comfortable to the 'witness of the Spirit' for matters affecting the whole church and doctrine. This is why we have the scriptures. In the first generation of the church this role was fulfilled through the availability of 'apostles of Christ' and their promise of infallible guidance. Since that time their 'infallible guidance' is enshrined in the Scriptures; not as an alternative to personal encounter with Christ.
When someone says 'the Lord told me' we can believe him or not, but when someone says 'the Lord told me to tell you' his utterance must be held to the measure of the scripture. When people advocate 'spectacular manifestations' as proofs of God's presence I say that God's public work and God's public statements of truth in the Scripture must be compatible. Your either/or is really a false dichotomy; God will not ignore His spoken testimony to us in the things that He does.
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2005/7/15 15:19 | Profile | todd
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Joined: 2003/5/12
Posts: 573
California
| | Re: | | Philo,
Let me attempt to clarify. I think I see what you're saying and I think I agree with most of what you wrote, though I might think about it a little differently than you do.
I do believe that the Bible, the whole thing, is the plumbline to measure everything by as to whether or not we are to be open to it or closed to it. I am closed off to anything that [i]contradicts[/i] the Bible. So clearly I am not coming from the same place as Jake. I believe in the authority of the Scriptures.
Quote:
"is there an objective way of assessing phenomena?"
My simple rule of thumb is that if it contradicts the Scriptures, it is to be rejected. However, you've probably heard this statement before and it has helped me as well:
"God will never contradict His Word. But He may contradict our understanding of His Word."
I think that is very important to keep in mind when attempting to assess phenomena as you speak of.
I think I see what you are saying about my either/or dichotomy being false, but maybe I don't fully see it because I still stand by my statement.
In reality I don't think we ever really have to make that choice, but in our hearts we may. But if we ever did have to make that choice, I think you'd make the same one as me.
If you were ever faced with the decision and let's say you had 2 doors in front of you- and you knew Jesus Himself was waiting for you on the other side of door #1 and the Bible itself (and perhaps your favorite Bible teacher) was waiting for you on the other side of door #2- and you were forced to make a decision... which would you pick?
I am all for the philosophy of the vital importance of both "The Word and the Spirit." But in my heart I know where my priorities are. |
| | 2005/7/15 15:49 | Profile |
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