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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Law and evangelism

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todd wrote:
It reminds me of something John G. Lake once said:
"There were days when the church could club men into obedience by preaching hell to them, but that day has long since passed. The world has outgrown it."

I heard something kinda 'crazy' by my pastors, and it makes me laugh, but it was true.

During the 'Jesus freak' movement. Or w/e you wanna call it. *The radical Christians, that were filled with God's Spirit and during the 'hippie' years* There were a group of people about 3-5 in number. And they were so filled with God they had to share it with someone. They jumped outta there van, touched some random guy *no conversation* just prayed over him, spoke in tounges...etc..etc.. the man fell/slain in the spirit. And they drove off.

The man who fell ended up getting saved that weekend because he was touched soo much by it.

Crazy huh?? Lol, idk your comment just kinda reminded me of that. :-D

 2005/7/14 14:05

Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri


Just hope to share some of what I see so we can all try to learn together. I heard a story of a person falling drunk in a ditch during the Hebrides Revival and waking up in the morning totally changed. Finney talked about people falling out on the floor under the enormous weight of their sins. The thing about Finney is that he believed in a solumn service. The last thing he would have ever done was slip some frivolity into his message. He was utterly serious. he once said that it was quote, "Impossible to preach too directly to the people." That tells you in itself what kind of minister he was.

I have watched so many young people turn from God. Whole generations after whole generations. Raised in the church and falling away. Some sats are as high as 85%. I have been vexed for years over it. What is going wrong here? Could we glean something from the Finney's, Ravenhill's, and even the more modern teachers such as Ron Bailey? I really encourage you to go back through Abraham My Friend and look at how God brings a person out and into where He wants them.

I think of how Finney was so successful. What did he do different? Many things! For one when you look at his methods he would have folk come up to the anxious seat. Sometimes he would allow the message to sink in for days or even weeks and not even give an altar call. I heard he had gone before for weeks without giving an altar call. Image that! We would be trying to harvest right in the middle of it all. Not Finney.

Was it the Puritains that feared plucking "unripe" fruit? Did you know that if Bananas are picked green from the vine they will NEVER ripen on their own? I used to handle Bananas in a produce warehouse. We had huge two story chambers to put skids of Bananas in to be 'gassed' with ethylene. If they were not 'gassed' they would remain pale green. Special conditions had to be followed also during the days of gassing.

I said that to say- what if we try to pluck a person when they are in an awakened but not convicted state? We press upon their minds the need and God has not brought them there. The fields are RIPE unto harvest as a human race- but as individuals God brings people along through a process and then when they are 'ripe' they are ready for salvation. Again, its about being sensitive to where a person is and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide you.

God Bless,


Robert Wurtz II

 2005/7/14 14:33Profile

Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


Amen Brian.
To God be praised!
The Law is to show the exceeding sinfulness of their sin, to the Sinner.
To God be all Praise, Glory, and Honor.
Nellie :-)

 2005/7/14 14:49Profile


That's an awesome story. Thanks for that.

 2005/7/14 22:32

Joined: 2005/2/8
Posts: 112


Yes, after my messages here in India, some of the local pastors called for "altar calls". I really didn't feel ANYONE was ready for it, but they've all seen American TV Evangelism, and have thought that's the way to be done. After a few meetings, I began to tell the locals "no altar calls, let the Spirit work in them".

We have seen many fall away, even using the law.

 2005/7/14 23:52Profile

Joined: 2004/6/28
Posts: 141

 Re: what an eye opener

this has been a brillaint discussion (not meaning to round if off) thankyou so much for your input and clarity.

Is there any where else I can learn more about "proclaiming the kingdom of God?"


 2005/7/16 8:05Profile

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