| Re: homosexuality|
It has come to my heart to point out that sodomy, as Krispy rightly called it earlier in the thread, is not confined to homosexuals. Between hetersexuals it is just as abhorrent to God and if perpetrated within marriage, is grounds for divorce.
The homosexual nature of sodomy is clear from
4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, [even] [b]the men of Sodom[/b], compassed the house round, [b]both old and young[/b], all the people from every quarter:
5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where [are] the [b]men[/b] which came in to thee this night? [b]bring them out unto us, that we may [u]know[/u] them[/b].
As a woman, I find Lot's response to this nothing short of horrific, but, you will see it was how men reasoned then (and perhaps, still).
7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as [is] good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9 And they said, Stand back. And they said, This one came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, Lot, and came near to break the door.
10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
(Praise the Lord!)
The story in Judges is strange enough, but the way the woman at the centre of the story dies of heart failure (or internal injuries) from her abusers, should cause us to take note of how seriously against nature, is this behaviour.
22 [Now] as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, [and] beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him. And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, [nay], I pray you, do not [so] wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly. Behold, [here is] my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: [b]but unto this [u]man[/u] do not so vile a thing[/b]. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and [b]they knew her, [u]and[/u] abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go[/b]. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord [was], till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down [at] the door of the house, and her hands [were] upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered.
Edit add: There is also a link between sodomy and temple prostitution 2 Kings 23:7.
And in Genesis 14, the King of Sodom turns up in the presence of Abraham and Melchizedec (of whose order is the priesthood of Jesus) when they are about to share bread and wine, to do a business deal (if he can) trading souls for goods.
This is a reminder of the connection which some are willing to make, between worship with abominable practices, which God hates. Turning away from these practices is essential, to please God.
| 2005/7/11 11:42|
Washington st. u.S. A.
I feel sorry for them, then there is the priest and the scandel in the chuch. 4 dead in the state next to mine by a level III sex offender
The only news one get's of them isn't very good.
yet Christ died for them. He looks at the sinner and not the sin. they may not have choosen what they are but they still have the responsiblity to make right choices
| 2005/7/11 13:16||Profile|
I think we may be venturing into territory that could be inappropriate for a public forum such as this one... Let's remember that more than likely there are Christian parents who allow their teens to come to this site.
Any discussion of sodomy should be very vague out of consideration for those young folks who read these forums.
I'm all for free speech, and this is a topic that should be talked about... but not necessarily here.
| 2005/7/11 13:19|
He looks at the sinner and not the sin
I dont agree with that completely... God does distinguish between certain types of sin in scripture. Some are called abominations, some are not. Certainly we are all sinners... but there are those sins in which God turns a sinner over... i.e. gives up on that person.
| 2005/7/11 13:21|
Just a thought... The wicked shall be turned into hell.. not just the wicked's sin. Most would quote this in a heated talk of God's justice that must be done. Does anyone ever say it weeping? Homosexuals will burn in hell just as liars will.. not only liars but those who love lies.
God will also grant homosexuals and liars salvation if they repent and trust in Jesus.
| 2005/7/11 13:52||Profile|
God will also grant homosexuals and liars salvation if they repent and trust in Jesus.
Absolutely... and amen!
The impression can be given that we're coming down hard on homosexuals. I'm not... I'm against saying that it's a sin just like stealing a cookie from the cookie jar when mom says no. God has very strong feelings about this sin in particular. I'm against Christians being soft on sin. If we get soft on sin... where does it end up? In the church. Look at the churches today that have allowed homosexuality in. They dont even call for repentence of it... they justify it.
Of course we should invite the homosexual in. But we dont condone or gloss over his/her sin. Or any other sin, for that matter.
| 2005/7/11 14:04|
I would say homosexuality is a knock at the virgin birth. The spirit behind it would say we do not need to have male and female to have a family. Just as Mary needed no man to have Jesus. But what they are missing is God. What does a homosexual couple have to do to have a child? Adopt...
Lets preach the whole council of God! Lets preach against all unrighteousness and God's grace! I'm sure most of us agree on that..
| 2005/7/11 19:51||Profile|
| Re: Biblical truth is suitable for families|
If it's not inappropriate for God to spell out in the Bible, how can it be inappropriate for a public forum? This is why parents are expected to police what their children do on the internet.
If mine were young again, and looking for information on this topic, I'd far rather they come to site like this, where a literally true perspective can be given, than one which does not give God's perspective and simultaneously steers them away from truth.
These last few verses of Romans 1 spell out the extremes of thinking and behaviour which can follow from gladly embracing homosexual practice, because of how God deals with them for doing so.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, [b]God gave them over to a reprobate mind[/b], to do those things which are not convenient;
29 [b]Being filled[/b] with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
The wonder is, that only four verses after these, Paul is talking about the goodness of God leading to repentance. Amen!
| 2005/7/12 22:01|
My two cents:
God loves all people even though all of us are guilty of sin and deserve the punishment it brings. I am reminded of Luke 18:9-14:
18:9He [Jesus] also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and looked down on everyone else:
18:10"Two men went up to the temple complex to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
18:11The Pharisee took his stand and was praying like this: 'God, I thank You that I'm not like other people --greedy, unrighteous, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.
18:12I fast twice a week; I give a tenth of everything I get.'
18:13"But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even raise his eyes to heaven, but kept striking his chest and saying, 'O God, turn Your wrath from me --a sinner!'
18:14I tell you, this one went down to his house justified rather than the other; because everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted."
We as Christians should not condemn homosexuals. We should not condemn anyone for that matter. I admit that sometimes I debate on the eternal destination of a lot of people and I am convicted of that and am humbled by God. That is a habit I am struggling to break. I believe we should disscuss their eternal situation just as we would disscuss the eternal destination of anyone who has ever told a lie, stolen, etc.
Every person will stand before the judgement seat of Christ to give an account of his life. As Christians we should tell them the truth of their lives, but not single out their sexual preferences. All that matters before God is that, "all have sinned".
| 2005/7/12 22:15||Profile|
| Re: sexual preferences|
Quote:As was pointed out by Krispy earlier in the thread, it is not us, but [i]God[/i] who singles out their sexual behaviour for eternal condemnation. (Lev 18) You also mention 'told a lie', which is included on God's special hitlist. It's a false economy not to present the extremity of truth to homosexuals, because sexual expression is profoundly human. These days, Christians may feel confused and concerned they are asking a fellow human to 'do' something which may be impossible and may not be necessary, but, this is to rob the idolater of the whole truth, with all its promise of deliverance.
I believe we should disscuss their eternal situation just as we would disscuss the eternal destination of anyone who has ever told a lie, stolen, etc.
...As Christians we should tell them the truth of their lives, but not single out their sexual preferences. All that matters before God is that, "all have sinned".
Quote:That doesn't make Christians holier-than-thou, it just makes them honest to God, and makes it possible to 'be holy'.
Rev 22:11 "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still."
12 " And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, [the] Beginning and [the] End, the First and the Last."
14 Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside [are] dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
1 Peter 1
13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest [your] hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, [as] in your ignorance;
15 but as He who called you [is] holy, you also be holy in all [your] conduct,
16 because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy." (Lev 11:45)
Romans 1 is an accurate analysis of the profound difficulties which come upon those who choose not to acknowledge God. In short, they become turned to a form of idolatry (v 23). This truth cannot be ditched because it seems extreme. The gospel is done a disservice by disbelieving it.
Idolatry may not be overt in western society, or, may not be confessed in those words, but, the spiritual effect remains. The importance to God, was laid out in Exodus 20.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, [b]nor serve them[/b]: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
God sees what we serve.
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness?
| 2005/7/13 15:57|