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Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1081


Vern, you said,and I quote,
“Notice that "have crucified" is PAST TENSE. **Nothing to be done in the future***but something that HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE.

YES this is an accomplished fact. The question is do you ***believe**this or do you believe a lie of the devil instead?”
-end of quote-
Repeating you,..
Are we greater than Paul ?

Before Paul came to The Lord,.. probably NO ONE could have told him that he was ***DECEIVED**
But when The Lord *appeared to Paul, .. Paul died to himself when he asked,.. “
Acts 9:6,
“Lord, what wilt thou have me to do,Lord ?”
So Paul chose **to die that day to self, and to begin his **dying daily
and **following The Lord.
Ҧ Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, **if the dead **rise not at all? **why are they then baptized for the dead?

30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?

31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, **I DIE DAILY.”,...(* Paul took up his cross daily.)
Don’t you believe Paul did this every day ,...**Lord,What would thou ,... (not me,..I die) **What would thou have for me to do?”
Lk.9:23-24,..Jesus said,..
“ If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and **take up his cross **DAILY and **follow me. .... (and who did Jesus ** follow?.. He **followed God, who is The One Who speaks,... The Word was God.)

24 For whosoever will **save his life **shall lose it: but whosoever will **lose his life (die to our will) for my sake, **the same shall **save it.”

This is literal !

 2019/5/25 14:49Profile

Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1081


Please let me take only this one Scripture,..that u gave to Tod,..
we know that it is a very important Scripture,...all Scripture are very precious.
May I elaborate on this one thing that u have wrote ?
Please study this what I am about to say,...
Let us talk about, ‘words” and “deception”
Satan has taken “Words” and distorted their true / truth meaning
Here are just a few,..
* Faith
* The Gospel
Here is one of the Scriptures you offered:

2 Cor. 13:5 (KJV) --
“Examine yourselves, whether ye be in **the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?”
....let us think about the Word,...** The Faith”
It is saying , **the** Faith,.. a specific kind of *Faith.
Please think about this,...
In Abraham’s time, .. His *Faith, was:
To (1) **hear God’ voice,... (2).**Believe What He is directing him, ,....
**and then (3) he *obeyed.

Also,That is *THE* Faith, that Jesus had, or as the Scriptures say,
“The **Faith of Jesus Christ “..
He listened,... (ears to hear) **heard what The Father said,...told Him,.. **Obeyed.
The Word **Faith has been distorted, by Satan, for *deception purposes.
It is widespread.

** Faith: (3) phases,
(1), hearing
(2), Beliving
(3), Obeying

 2019/5/25 15:20Profile

Joined: 2018/9/6
Posts: 279


When Paul said, "I die daily," he was not speaking of a way of dying, but a way of living.

When Jesus said, "Except a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die, it remains alone," He was not speaking of a way of dying, but a way of living.

Think. If a seed died after it was put into the ground, no farmer would ever plant it and everyone would starve to death. The seed does not die, it takes on the appearance of death. But that appearance of death fools no one (except those who are being tempted by the serpent). It is not long, just a few hours if there is rain, after the seed is planted in the ground, before new life is springing forth from it.

Thanatos, death, is not found in anything Jesus said, nor in any part of Christ inside of us


 2019/5/25 15:31Profile

Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1081


(2) phases here,

(1) *Dying order to
(2) *Live order to have His Life, lived out IN me.

I don’t think I have anything else to try to help.

We must *Workout our own *Salvation with *fear an *trembling,

 2019/5/25 15:58Profile

Joined: 2018/9/6
Posts: 279

  We do not "die to self

We don't go through a process of dying to self, but rather simply realize by faith recognition that we died with Him in His death and that our old man is/was crucified with Him. This isn't something we pray to happen but it is revealed to us that it HAS happened.

We do not "die to self". Paul is finding out that we HAVE died, and what died was the "old man," which was the false infection in the self of separation and independence. The answer is not some continuous daily struggle to "die," but to realize once and for all we HAVE died in the Cross with Jesus, BUT, as Paul said of himself (representing all of us), nevertheless we live! But, it is no longer I who is living, but Christ. "Christ in me."

There is a big difference. One (dying to self) is a work of the flesh trying to fix itself which is an oxymoron, and the other is our living reality which is ours the moment we are born again. We just do not know it yet!

Therefore, we don't go through a process of dying to self, but rather simply realize by faith recognition that we died with him in his death and that our old man is/was crucified with Him. This isn't something we pray to happen but it is revealed to us that it HAS happened.

We ARE dead (the old man), we HAVE died, in His death, and the life WE NOW LIVE IN THE FLESH is Christ. We may not understand what that means or be able to explain it clearly and concisely in a way that would please the theologians or the doctrine police. That does not matter, however. It is a great simplicity, because just as we know when we are born again but can't prove it to anyone else, in the same way we see our death in Him is already a done deal. We cannot prove it, but still we "know" it. We realize it is not something WE have to make happen but something HE DID through Calvary. We say He has done it, and we rejoice in His doing. "This is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes."

It only takes a leap, stand or word of faith, to say, "Yes, Lord, it is no longer I who live, but You who are living in me." THAT IS the entering in, instead of waiting until I look or feel like it. After all, what need of faith if I "look" to myself already like Christ. Once Isaac has been born, no need to expend any more faith toward that goal. Until we know the birth of Isaac, we are like Abraham, who "being not weak in faith, he considered NOT his own body now dead . . . neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb . . . staggered not at the promises of God through unbelief, . . . being FULLY persuaded that, what he (God) had promised, He was able also to perform . . . and he called "those things which were not as though they were."


 2019/5/25 18:14Profile

Joined: 2018/9/6
Posts: 279

 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Philippians 2:12-13

When Paul says, "For it is God who," he is making it clear that what God does comes first before anything we do. What we do comes only out of what God Himself does. And what God does is that He creates His will inside of our will and even the doing of His will in our will is of Him.

Now to the beginning and the essence of the gospel.

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2

Peace with God is the very first thing that comes into the life of the new believer who is first justified by faith. I am not at war with God. My will is not opposed to God's will, and God's will is not opposed to my will. War is something that can be conducted only in the will. There is complete peace between my will and God's will. I am at peace with God.


 2019/5/25 18:23Profile

Joined: 2006/5/11
Posts: 462
West Sussex, England

 Re: for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

The process of dying to self involves dying to our sin Vern. So when Paul says directly "Put to death whatever belongs to your earthly nature". This would contradict what you are saying.

David Keel

 2019/5/25 18:45Profile

Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1777

 Re: We do not "die to self


We don't go through a process of dying to self, but rather simply realize by faith recognition that we died with Him in His death and that our old man is/was crucified with Him. This isn't something we pray to happen but it is revealed to us that it HAS happened.

Cup, the problem with your understanding is, you do not know the difference between Flesh and Old man. You think they both are same but they are not. Not just you but many serious Christians do not know the difference. I corrected you in the earlier posts when you said the Flesh was put to death by God. It is clear lie, because there are plenty of verses that warns Christians not to walk in Flesh. If God has put the flesh to death then all those verses are lie. Bible it self is lie because my flesh is well and alive, so is yours.

Now you are posting that Old man is dead. It is clear beyond proof that you do not know the difference. Knowing the difference is not something that will save you, but something that will keep your understanding of scripture consistent. There is also a great danger in your belief which I will explain later.

Old man is the old person who we were all before we were born again. We had no interest to live for God, or do God's will. But when we accepted the salvation that Christ offered, God put the Old man to death and made us a new creation in Christ. We do not put the old man to death daily, he is dead. The old man who opened the door to sin in our life is dead. The new man does not want to open the door to sin. He wants to live for the Glory of God.

Our Flesh is the corrupt Adam's nature. Our flesh is not put to death by God. It is the job of the New Man to fight and put the flesh to death. The flesh fights against the Spirit and Spirit against the Flesh. There is an everyday battle. It is our job to put the flesh on the Cross and keep it Crucified, every day.

For the Flesh to die, the new man should be strong to put the Flesh to death continuously. The new Man is strengthened by Grace alone. We need to seek God's grace everyday to put the Flesh to death.

Romans 8:13 - For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

This is the everyday battle that a Christian should go through. It is not done by our might but by his might. But there is still a battle. To say that there is no battle is a lie.

We can see the death of the old man as the death of the Egyptians by the Red Sea. Did the Israelites kill them? NO God killed them by merging them in the Water. A symbol of our water baptism.

The symbol of our battle with Flesh is the battle that the Israelites did to posses the Promise land. Promise Land is the overcoming life that God has promised us in New Covenant. We need to believe in God and fight the giants like the new generation of Jews under Joshua did. God empowered them to Kill the giants. The same God will empower us to fight the giants in our life like Anger, Lust, pride etc.

The God who put the Egyptians to death could have easily killed the Giants in the Promise land and allowed the Jews to live freely without any fight. But that was not God's will. He wanted them to posses the Promiseland in faith, by going to the battle in faith.

Now if someone said to them that they do not need to battle God has already killed the giants then it is a lie! They will laugh at the guy and tell him, we see the giants before us. Your God is a liar. That is what I will tell anyone who shares the Gospel that you share!

The problem or danger in belief like yours is, you do not count for everyday battle and hence you do not count on defeats as well. Bible is clear that we will sometimes stumble and sin.

1 John 1:8- If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

It is a deception to believe that we do not have sin. We have to accept our shortcomings in the daily battle and confess it to God. Without that there is no forgiveness. People who believe in what you believe, call their shortcomings as mistakes. The problem is Jesus did not die for our mistakes but for our Sins. We need to call Sin by its name and confess it to God. Otherwise we will not be forgiven both of our past and present sins.


 2019/5/25 19:28Profile

Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 756

 Re: Elizabeth

You wrote:
“** Faith: (3) phases,
“(1), hearing
“(2), Beliving
“(3), Obeying”



The Lord Jesus says:

John 8:24 (ISV) –
………unless you believe that I AM, you'll die in your sins."

John 6:35 –
Jesus said to them, "I AM THE BREAD OF LIFE; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.

John 8:12 –
Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life."

John 10:9-10 –
"I AM THE DOOR; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.”

John 1:11 –
I AM THE GOOD SHEPHERD; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
Ps. 23:1 –
The LORD is my shepherd, I lack nothing.

John 11:25-26 –
Jesus said to her, "I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
1 John 5:11-12 –
And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

John 14:6 –
Jesus said to him, "I AM THE WAY, AND THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

John 15:5 –
I AM THE VINE, YOU ARE THE BRANCHES; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

And the Lord Jesus says:

John 147:20 –


1 John 3:23-24 –
and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. THIS IS HIS COMMANDMENT, THAT WE BELIEVE IN THE NAME OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST, AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER, JUST AS HE COMMANDED US. THE ONE WHO KEEPS HIS COMMANDMENTS ABIDES IN HIM, AND HE IN HIM. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


John 15:4,6 –
ABIDE IN ME, AND I IN YOU. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Are you hearing, believing and obeying these words and commands of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ?

Rom. 14:17 –
……the kingdom of God is…………RIGHTEOUSNESS and PEACE and JOY in the Holy Spirit.


 2019/5/25 23:40Profile

Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1081


Jade, you ask:

“Are you hearing, believing and obeying these words and commands of God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ?”

Jade, I believe we are to be,*Filled with The Spirit of God, and *Led by The Spirit of God..


 2019/5/26 1:22Profile

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