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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2219


/Rome has been given the old city.../


David Winter

 2019/5/22 23:40Profile

Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1450
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: How many Christians will think the antichrist is Jesus

0 is the answer if by Christians you mean those whom hear His voice and obey it...
however if you mean those whom believe they are Christians, like Bruce Jenner believes he’s a woman, then 100%


 2019/5/22 23:47Profile

Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1838
Hemel Hempstead


On the contrary i think many will be decieved
How do we know that it is not a demonic voice and what if this voice is either your flesh or a demon.

What if this voice tells you completly disobey scripture.

Discernment is the precise problem.

This is one of the biggest problems in the church is putting personal revelation above scripture .

Many are being decieved and already are being decieved. The problem is it you or is it me.

Noahide laws
I find it interesting this subject as going to Israel and i have been to tiberius.
Muslims believe in the fact that Jesus will return after the Mahdi
Islamic eschatology is interesting
Chris whites video on this is interesting

I would agree Islam is just a distraction but sometimes i think politics is just a distraction but Islam is a real threat as well.

I know as when the antichrist comes he will have to gain there recognition.

Also the problem that because there is a republican in the White House, the new world orders plan are stopped

People tend to look at need to look at more why rather.

The Jews are not going to accept an Islamic antichrist

To fufill Jewish messianic claims
Maimonides laws regarding the Messiah which most Jews hold to even if they are reformed


I have heard the claim that the pope owns the old city but it is finding the actual documents to actually prove it but at the moment Jordan holds the rights to the temple mount area and will not hold it up without a fight


We as Christians tend to look externally but internally as there has been so many deceptions in the church from thing such as the prosperity gospel with people like Kenneth copelan, Benny hinn , Joyce Meyer , Joel osteen, Stephen furtick , Todd white , Hillsong , bethel

Look at the research of say Justin peters in his series clouds without water

I read books like d l moody and r a Torrey , i think if you read things such as the puritan paperback series or people like William Tyndale and compare Christian authors today

The greatest prayer would be lord give me a love of the truth so that i may flee deception

Dominic Shiells

 2019/5/23 6:59Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5638


The Puritans did not share your view of Antichrist.


 2019/5/23 7:17Profile

Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1838
Hemel Hempstead


I know i have read them they viewed the pope as the antichrist
I don't think o have shared my personal view here

Dominic Shiells

 2019/5/23 7:30Profile

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2077

 Re: How many Christians will think the antichrist is Jesus



1) There is no Antichrist as the premil disps describe.

2) If there were, according to the Scripture it is impossible for God's elect to be deceived.

John 10:14,15

I am the good shepherd. I know My sheep and My sheep know Me, just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father. And I lay down My life for the sheep. - Jesus

 2019/5/23 8:03Profile

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2219

 Re: HE shall take HIS seat in the temple

3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the MAN of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

4 who opposes and exalts HIMSELF above every so-called god or object of worship, so that HE takes HIS seat in the temple of God, displaying HIMSELF as being God. 9II Thess 2:3-4)

Paul's reference in verse 4 above is a almost direct quote from Daniel 11:36:

36 Then the king shall do according to HIS own will; HE shall exalt and magnify HIMSELF above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.

Because of Jewish eschatology and its context, of which much of the modern church has disregarded, Paul knew the king of Daniel as one and the same with the MAN of lawlessness who was to come and magnify and oppose HIMSELF above every god. Regaining the Jewish eschatological context of which Jesus never turned from can go a long way in helping understand these verses where personal pronouns abound.

David Winter

 2019/5/23 9:26Profile

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2077

 Re: "man of sin"

The "man of sin" is the Roman emperor(s) who brought severe persecutions against Christians as foretold by Daniel and pictured in Revelation 13. I should like to discuss this and ask you to carefully consider the reasoning that I shall use. Before presenting some arguments for this position, it would be in order to look at the passages under consideration.

In 2 Thess. 2:1-5 Paul is correcting a false impression that the Thessalonians had. They had come to believe that the coming of Jesus was imminent. He wrote so that they would "not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed" (vs. 2). Paul did not want them to lose their heads over this matter but to keep their mental balance. Evidently, someone claimed that Paul or Silas or Timothy had received a prophetic revelation ("spirit") claiming that the time of the coming of Jesus was here. Perhaps someone said that there was a letter from them to that effect. Paul is denying any such revelation or letter. So, he said, "don't let anyone deceive you in any way about this matter. Remain firm."

The reason that they should not be shaken is that the coming of Jesus would not take place until there was a falling away and until there was the revealing of "the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction" (vs. 3). A time would come when "because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold" (Matt. 24:12). This would be a "falling away." Then there would also be a man of lawlessness, one who would have "contempt and violation of law" (Thayer, p. 42). This man would act with utter contempt for God and His way. He is called the "son of destruction." Apoleia: "the destruction which consists in the loss of eternal life, eternal misery, perdition ... a man doomed to eternal misery. 2 Th 2:3" (Thayer, p. 71). This man of sin would be eternally damned as a result of his godless iniquity and opposition to all that is holy. In verse 4 this man of sin "opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god (all that is called God) or object of worship so that he takes his seat in the temple of God displaying himself as being God." His lawlessness consists in opposing God and God's people and in exalting himself to a position of honor and worship that belongs only to Deity. He claims a higher position than could ever belong to man, a position in which he demands worship from man.

In verses 6-12 this lawless one is described. But at the time of Paul's writing, there was something that restrained the diabolical work of this man of sin. The Roman empire and emperors controlled the world. The Christians were protected to some extent by the Roman authorities. Rome looked upon Christianity as an extension of Judaism, and, therefore, considered it as legal. (Any religion that existed when Rome captured a nation was accepted as legal. However, no new religion was allowed to being.) When Rome because aware that Christianity was not a part of Judaism, it was then declared to be illegal. This explains why Paul was released from his first Roman imprisonment and yet executed for spreading an illegal religion during his second imprisonment. In Acts 21 when the Jews sought to kill Paul, the Roman commander rescued him (22-29). In Acts 18 when some Jews were trying to stop Paul's preaching, it was the Roman proconsul who protected him (12-17). However, when Rome began to look on Christianity as illegal, this changed and there was no restraining power to stop persecutions against Christians.

This man of sin would be used as an instrument of Satan (vs. 9). He would come with "all power and signs and false wonders and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish." But one thing is for sure: this man of sin will be destroyed by the power of the Lord Jesus Christ (vs. 8).

Who is This Man of Sin? -- Daniel Seven
In order to adequately answer our question, we need to consider Daniel's vision and what it symbolizes. Let us look at Dan. 7:1-12. Daniel tells of his vision of the "four great beasts ... coming up from the sea" (vs. 3). The first was like a lion and had the wings of an eagle (4), the second resembled a bear (5), the third was like a leopard with four heads (6) and the fourth was "dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth ... and it had ten horns" (7). While Daniel looked, he saw "another horn, a little one, came up among them .... this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth uttering great boasts" (8-9). "Then I kept looking because of the soung of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body given to the burning fire" (vs. 11). In vv. 15-28 Daniel was quite distressed about the vision and asked one standing by (an angel?) the exact meaning. "So he told me and made known to me the interpretation of these things" (vs. 16). He was told that the four beasts were four kings or kingdoms (vs. 23) which will arise. These correspond to the four kingdoms of chapter 2. Daniel was especially concerned about the fourth beast, the ten horns and the other horn which came up (vs. 20). "I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them..." (21). "The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms, and it will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it" (23). The horns represent kings; the little horn that came up represents a king who "will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One ... and they will be given into his hand for a time, times and half a time" (25). Yet the time will come when his dominion will be taken away and the kingdom of God will prevail (26-27).

We recognize Babylon as the kingdom represent by the lion. Medo-Persia was the second followed by Greece, symbolized by the leopard. The great and terrible fourth beast represented the Roman Empire. Therefore, the horns were emperors. The number ten should be taken in the sense of a completed number rather than ten literal kings. There would arise a persecuting emperor who would severely make havoc of the people of God. He would be arrogant and boastful even against God.

Revelation 13
Daniel's visions is complemented by John's visions in Rev. 13. In chapter 12 we saw the dragon (Satan) trying to destroy the man child (Jesus) but failing in his attempt. Then he turned to the people of God in an effort to overcome them. Chapter 13 tells of the agency he was using to overcome God's saints. There was a beast that came up out of the sea (remember Dan. 7:3?). This beast was an amalgam of the four beasts of Daniel. He was like a leopard with feet like a bear, and a mouth like the mouth of a lion. He is that dreadful and terrible beast that Daniel saw. He had ten horns and seven heads. One of his heads was wounded and yet his fatal wound was healed. He received worship from the people of the earth. "And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and authority to act for forty-two months" (5). The forty-two months correspond to the three and one-half years of the "horn" of Dan. 7. As in Dan. 7, this beast makes war with the saints and seeks to overcome them (7), "and all who dwell on the earth will worship him" except those whose names are in the book of life.

Then we see a second beast arising. This one looks like a lamb but has the voice of a dragon. His sole activitiy is to persuade the people of the earth to worship the first beast whose fatal wound was healed (12). In doing so, he performed "great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth... and he deceives those who dwell on earth because of the signs." He enforces emperor worship.

We have little difficulty in seeing the persecuting emperor(s) of Rome in this chapter and the committee going through the Roman Empire seeking to enforce emperor worship. Whether this refers to Nero or Domitian ("the fatal wound healed"?) or both is not the particular point of discussion at present. We just want to see that both Daniel and John saw the diabolical evil "king" persecuting the people of God for "forty-two months" or 3 1/2 years or 1,260 days. Of course, this is not a specific, literal timeframe, but incomplete time (one half of the perfect number, seven).

The Man of Sin
Now, how does all this help us define the man of sin?

His "coming is in accord with activity of Satan" (vs. 9) just as in Rev. 13:2, 4. He is acting as an agent of the devil.
He comes "with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish" (vv. 9-10). This is also seen in Rev. 13:14.
There is the claim of deity - "exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship displaying himself as being God" (vs. 4). We also see this in Rev. 13:4, 14.
Paul predicted a "falling away" in which souls would be deceived and be lost (vv. 3, 11). Daniel told how the "little horn" would "wear down the saints of the Highest One" for 3 1/2 times. In Rev. 13 the beast would "make war with the saints and overcome them" (vs. 7). Jesus said, "And because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold" (Matt. 24:12). (I realize that Jesus is speaking of events leading up to the destruction of Jerusalem in this context. The comparison is that lawlessness causes the people to fall away.)
This "lawless one" will be slain by the Lord with the breath of His mouth and brought to an end by the brightness of His coming (vs. 8). Daniel saw the beast slain and its body destroyed and given to the burning fire (7:11, 26). In Revelation the beast was defeated, seized, and thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone (19:19-20).
Because of these similarities, it seems most logical that Paul is speaking of the same personage as was Daniel and John. In so doing, he was helping prepare them for the coming persecutions that many of them would have to face. I fail to see that advantage to these people for Paul to be speaking of some far removed event. I urge you to study this diligently and reach your conclusions carefully. In so far as it is possible, we need to allow the Bible to help us understand prophecy. We do not need speculation.

By F.D. Moyer

 2019/5/23 10:16Profile

Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: deception

On deception. It's a tricky thing, one finds out he's deceived after he's been deceived...hopefully he finds out.

History serves to warn us just like scripture that the Church can fall prey to deceptions. Adolf Hitler was approved by many a Church in Germany before they knew just what kind of man he was. But by then it was too late.

The issue would not be the German-Christians salvation, but the loss of freedoms and the incessant cruelty/murder that would ensue.

The scripture warnings to Christians are not mere rhetoric, the warnings are there because temptations and our failing the test is a very real result of forsaking those warnings.

God loves and cares about those who are deceived, blinded, ensnared, trapped however you want to call it, but God's love is not shortened nor is his arm, nor is his ear dull because like sheep the sinner has gone astray. So God's people can go astray, the state of the American Church is literally a billboard declaring that fact. To think only the lost in our Churches are deceived is a good indication you are deceived along with them.

Until the Church admits it's own deceptions and its own failings, the unconverted church-goer will be rocked to sleep by the Devil never to awaken.


 2019/5/23 10:28Profile

Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1081


I wish I knew prophecy , I would hope The Lord would reveal that to me.
But He has not , as of yet.
I sure would desire this.


He has only revealed / taught me, ‘the Way /path of Life’,..
....maybe I need to pray more for that,.. as I know it says in Revelations,..

“ Blessed is “he that readeth’, and they ‘that hear’ the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.”


 2019/5/23 10:35Profile

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