Zeke... thanx for your response. To some extent I agree that at times I come across strong. However there are many on this site who will attest to the fact that if they take the time to challenge me privately... and really try to understand where I am coming from... they find a whole different perspective on me and my message. Most on here tho just get offended and dont take the time to try and understand. Basically what I am saying is I am not the only one who has a responsibility to be tolerant and patient as we all wade thru this together.
Get my drift, bro?
By the way, a brother wrote me privately about the Osteen thread, calling me out for calling Osteen and others "jokers". I was wrong, and thanked him for pointing that out and challenging me. See... but thats my point... most on here dont see what goes on behind the scenes. Judgementalism abounds on this site... and on both sides. I'm guilty of it... and so is every other person on here.
Everyone on this site needs to stop jumping to conclusions, blaming, and judging. That goes for people like me, and also for those who disagree with me and my ilk. :-?
| 2005/7/10 10:08|
Edmonton Alberta Cda.
Why is it that when someone stands up and calls a spade a spade like Krispy did, he is called spitefull and negative... I believe that in posting his message Krispy has alerted some people who may believe the "gospel of Osteen" to take a closer look. We all claim to follow Christ, take a look in Matthew 23 to see how He responded to error by the religious leaders of His day....
| 2005/7/10 10:30||Profile|
| Re: I love Ya.|
Hi, I wrote a PM to KrispyKrittr some days ago and then I had to send two more PM's, to appologise to him because I had been too hasty.
He is right in that we do not know what goes on behind the scenes.
So KrispyKrittr, I appologise publicly here to you.
| 2005/7/10 10:41||Profile|
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Quote:I think the major difference Greg, is that he was speaking directly to them. He was not standing up in the cogregation of like minded saints telling of the evils of the pharisiacal holiness club.
We all claim to follow Christ, take a look in Matthew 23 to see how He responded to error by the religious leaders of His day....
| 2005/7/10 10:51||Profile|
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
Quote:To a certain degree, yes. ;-)
Basically what I am saying is I am not the only one who has a responsibility to be tolerant and patient as we all wade thru this together.
Get my drift, bro?
Now its just a question of where we are all going to sit at a banquet and who will get off the soapbox first.
| 2005/7/10 10:56||Profile|
Edmonton Alberta Cda.
Perhaps Luke 12:1 is a better example of our Savior exposing error. There are many many instances where Jesus warned those following Him to watch false teachings..I can look them all up, and post them here, but I think you get the point. IT IS NOT WRONG TO EXPOSE ERROR. There should be more of it in Christian circles, then maybe some of this false teaching would have been left at the door, and not be infecting our houses of worship.
| 2005/7/10 11:03||Profile|
| Re: tone and attitude|
I am much in agreement with you here. It has alot to do with tone and attitude.
I also posted something quite awhile ago about my concern over the Osteen following. And I am still concerned over it- not him, but it- the message.
Like I told Krispy in a pm, I do not dislike Osteen, and do feel we need to respect him as a human being and love him, I do believe that the message he preaches - which is what Tozer and Wilkerson calls counterfeit christianity- should be called for what it is.
It is heart breaking to see people flocking to this kind of gospel and believing that this is the gospel. My heart breaks for the Lord. He deserves His glory and the obedience and honor of His people in a real way.
No, we should not knock "people" per se-
The trouble is that the real truth, the real gospel is available, but many are a little blinded by the counterfeit and also there is alot of mixture of both.
My heart grieves over the thousands that are believing that they are following the christian life because they may be following the principles in books such as Osteen's. This doesn't mean I hate him or think he is a bad man. But the fact is that he is deceiving people. Should we just keep our mouths shut about it all?
Yes, we should present the truth, we should give examples of great men and women who have gone before us, this helps tremendously with helping people have discernment, but, like Tozer and Wilkerson, we need to expose some false beliefs and false gospels. We can probably do that without mentioning names, I suppose.
Again I am reminded of working out our own salvation with fear and trembling- but that salvation includes obedience to what the Lord lays on our hearts about proclaiming the true gospel too.
When we post or try to expose things that are false, it must be done prayerfully and thoughtfully- with God's glory in mind.
I definitely agree with Neil as well! We should be looking to the ones who HAVE lived their lives sold out to Christ. That is what I am doing with my own children. Hoping it will help them with their discernment as they get older. [b]But I will also warn them of what is false because the false can seem so good and sweet that it overshadows the sacrificial lives of those who have gone before us.[/b]
Just my 2 cents :)
In Christ, Chanin
| 2005/7/10 11:16||Profile|
Santa Clara, CA
| I am liking this...|
Progress! Praise God you good people...
Think Zekeo hit it on the crux of it: "Tone". And it is the usual culprit that gets things in such disarray. It is also wrought with it's own inherent problems, because it is often difficult to "hear" that through this medium, not always but at times. "Care" would be maybe a good word to interject, not an egg shell walk, but just some understanding that this is out before all to partake in and some consideration of how and which words we are choosing to convey our expressions.
Read through both 1 and 2 Timothy this morning [i]after[/i] a pretty healthy dose of Job. Felt led to these and the correlations were interesting.
Reading Job's replies as his 'friends' were dragging him further down with their doctrine and 'helps', it got to the point where I couldn't bear listening to them and just concentrated on Job's comments, complaints and didn't find it to difficult to see things from his perspective. If it was you or I how might have we reacted? Despite it all, the moments where he still stubbornly refused to let go of God and interspersed great articulation to Gods glory and Soverignty... maybe moments of clarity while he was trying to grasp just what was happening to himself?
Jumping over to Timothy, much said towards arguing over words.. to no profit and many times the exhortation is what is trying to be expressed here:
2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: [b]but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart[/b].
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
I guess what I picked up out the combinations, was that often times there is the sad tendency to act in a manner more often like Job's friends or to get bogged down in things that end up being of no real use whatsoever, only causing strife and division, controversy for controversy's sake. This is just in general and just some musing over it all. One of the stronger moments that struck me was in this:
1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, [b]that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering[/b], [b][u]for a pattern to them[/u][/b] which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
I'll leave it at that, thought it was very applicable.
P.S. Thanks Krispy for sharing more about yourself, Jeep?, 80's hair bands? Fishing...
| 2005/7/10 11:36||Profile|
| Re: I am so sick of the spirit of negativity on this forum!|
I am so sick of hearing which believer thinks of that deceiving pastor or which believer thinks about this or that "corrupted" text.
I don't have the answer to what motivates someone to look for the bad in everything I can't relate, I always try my personal best to look for the good it make me a much happier person, and I don't know if it is from our childhood or an illness or perfectly normal. I was told one time by a friend years ago he thought it "might" be a lot of anger built up inside or the "little man" syndrome were you tear down others to build yourself up and I don't know if that is true, just sharing what feedback I have personally received from someone. There will always be critics of anyone or anything I just choose not to be one or participate in tearing down but I do choose to be someone to edify and lift up and it really does help me, I feel healthier and happier for being that way. I will say this if you feel like your called to bring out or expose the wrong doings of folks in life that is totally between you and God and I would be the last person to tell you that your wrong because that would be like saying God is wrong, but I really think that if you are called to expose the bad I would be mighty careful and use a lot of tact in doing so. Knowledge of God's Word and His love for us give us the boldness to walk with confidence, It builds us up. When something is "built up," it is "edified." God wants us to be edified, and He wants us to edify others. The body of Christ will continue to need building up until Christ returns. I just feel we have been called to stand together in one body, and should get busy building it up. Romans 15:1 and 2 say "We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbor for his good to edification." People are built up as we use our strengths to strengthen them, but I do realize this is all just my personal opinion and I do respect the opinions of others, and I also no doubt respect anything they feel God has called them to do, just as I would want folks to respect me for what I feel I was called to do, my responsibility is to be sure that the things I do in my own life glorifies God, This promotes a peace in my heart.
Mr. Bill :-)
| 2005/7/10 12:05||Profile|
| Re: finetuning our definitions|
Perhaps it would be good to fine-tune our understanding of negative versus positive. We humans tend to be subjective creatures evaluating things from our own senses. For example, while we feel gloomy because our picnic is being rained out, the farmer is rejoicing that his fields are receiving rain.
I think that there is a place to embrace the negatve - even if it is unrefined and disturbing.
Should we not be grateful that there are some who look intently at the negative, who look for the germ that causes the disease, who expose the roots of weeds, who somehow allow our hidden motives to be exposed (even if through the crude words of our children)? Should we not be glad for light of the Spirit shining on the dark corners of our hearts even if it makes us feel miserable? Aught we not to be grateful for those throughout history who expose error even at the risk being labelled an annoyance? Are we not glad that Jesus was lifted up - with all the shame and ugliness in order that we could be saved?
While there is great power and value in positive thinking, it will never lead us to the cross. Scripture reminds us that the society that doesnt want God (via the cross) wants instead to have positive messages that tickle the ears. They want to have fun and comfort. To some extent, I include myself in that lot because I am a product of society.
I must admit, I get disturbed by those who seem to be carry a chip (weight) on their shoulders while never expressing a hint of gratitude over Gods sovereignty and goodness. Id love to shake them up and give them a lesson on positive thinking. But that is not Gods way.
I think we need to allow risks rather than take control of others. In my past I have been on forums that were heavily controlled making sure that no negative words were expressed. In doing so, they placed themselves on a slippery slop leading down into deception all the while squelching any warnings, and accusing Gods messengers of having a negative spirit.
We are all works in progress and havent arrived yet. We see through a glass but dimly. Perhaps intense prayer is better than intense control.
| 2005/7/10 15:32||Profile|