There is (my understanding) a world council meeting this weekend to vote on wether to allow openly gay leaders in the Methodist church...
there are apparently 3 options, the first of which keeps things as they are which does not allow it- the second seems to allow current (gay) leaders to continue serving but not allowing new gay leadership- and the third effectively changes the position to fully embrace gay leaders and formally amends the “book of discipline” to reflect these changes.

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Fletcher

If it is currently not allowed why are there gay leaders?

I thought it was already obvious that the Methodist church allows and condones it. Perhaps I am mistaken.

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Todd

My understanding is that they have had those in leadership positions that have “come out” as gay after having been in said position for years. The regional delegation in California has a more liberal stance (as does others) on this issue and it seems to be that there is a considerable contingent in favor of allowing gays to serve in leadership-ie; bishops, pastors etc...

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Fletcher

I am sure the Arch Bishop of the Infernal regions has a few more changes to make.

Killing/murder
1. allow no killing
2. Allow those preachers who have murdered to continue but refuse new preacher murderers
3. Permit all murder and killing

Baby-love
1. allow no pedophilia
2. allow only those 'approved' preachers to continue in pedophilia.
3. allow all pedophilia

Other gods
1. have no other gods
2. allow those preachers offering other gods and other ways to continue with toleration
3. allow full toleration for other gods

Theft, extortion, robbery, fraud, money scams
1. allow none of the above
2. allow those preachers who currently live by and endorse the above, but limit new-comers
3. allow all the above with tolerance and understanding.

I'm sure the Arch Bishop from below has even more offerings to present, and it's good for the modern church to stay relevant, current and in good-standing with non-churched folks.

How fortunate for some parishioners who have a gay Pastor murderer and preaches 'other god' toleration and helps his congregation to involve themselves in a pyramid scheme.

I don't see why the need to vote, once the practice has become the 'norm' for certain folks, the only thing one can do is accept them in love and give them permission to be what they are because God loves us all like we are.

The jesus of the 21st century need not conform to any old metanarratives, freedom of expression is all that matters.

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Marvin

My intent in posting this was to encourage the saints that frequent SI to pray/intercede regarding this event that will undoubtably have lasting consequences in the body of Christ. Perhaps I should have stated this in OP-

Regarding your points, it’s interesting that in conversations (with those who defend this position) they say “well Jesus never mentions being homosexual period, much less as a sin- so I’m gonna go with Jesus”.
The obvious line of questions follow from me regarding Paul’s epistles and the rather clear message in them on this subject tho this morning I inquired, “since Jesus didn’t mention being a pedophile, Buddhist, or a drug addict... would it then also be ok to have a gay, Buddhist, pedophile, drug addicted bishop or pastor?” To which I was given the reply, “yes I see this does open a whole new can of worms...” followed with “I don’t judge people for their sin, and I believe they are born that way, so it’s not a sin anyway”

Realizing that we have totally different views on the matter and understanding that they would not be persuaded, I simply stopped questioning them on their position, allowing them to change the subject.

It would appear that the battle will increase and while we must remain firmly upon the foundation of Christ, we must also be mindful to remain equally loving in our engagement and not going the way of the flesh.

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Fletcher

Hi Fletcher:

To me, voting on homosexuality is equally repulsive as voting on any of the other sins I mentioned. Our cultures toleration for it and my comparisons are not in the slightest unloving, they are just stark, in your face comparisons.

I find this often that when one wakes a sleeping sinner with a quick jerk of their bedcovers they awaken with "what, what are you saying?" why such a horrible comparison? Because the same devil that tempts with homosexuality, has passed off exploitation of the Church for money... as I mentioned; has endorsed abortion...as I mentioned; and offered other routes to heaven...as I mentioned and those things are not even given a moments thought. They didn't even put it to a vote they just did it.

In our politically correct culture and guard-someone's- feelings-at-all-costs philosophy I have come to believe strongly it is just the 'method' of keeping any reality or truth from their minds. Because invariably I am not loving if I tell them of such insanity and they are buying into it. I do not use their litmus tests to validate my love.

I have listened to the best and most articulate of speakers, and the harsh curmudgeons like myself and neither of us can escape without being characterized as 'unloving'. I am because of tone, the other because of subject matter. The answer? I pay no attention to it anymore, the idea behind being offended easily is to protect ones most insane and lunatic ideas from scrutiny.

I learned a long time ago, my love is not measured by my articulation, tone or subject matter, it's determined by God's judgment according to inward motive and outward obedience.

Because I am a nobody, I am not Sparks or Reidhead or one of the other favorites, my comparisons are relegated to 'unloving', when they do it it's powerful, relevant and noteworthy. This I also find to be nonsense.

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Marvin

Oh dear brother we are miscommunicating :(
It was in no way to suggest YOU were being unloving by your post.
If anything I totally get where you’re coming from and thought I’d articulated as much.

However, our words do matter for they are a reflection of our hearts and in an hour where the church is being attacked from within and without, it would be especially beneficial for us to pray all the more diligently:)

Hope that helps to clarify ~

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Fletcher

Holiness: The United Methodist Way
November 4, 2011
By Steve Manskar

Pursue peace with everyone,
and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.
Hebrews 12:14

This is a passage John Wesley frequently cites in his journal. Given his life-long quest for holiness of heart and life it is no surprise that he would be drawn to this verse. As we begin a new year and move toward another General Conference Hebrews 12:14 is a valuable guide for The United Methodist Church.

The United Methodist Way is the pursuit of peace with all people and, most important, holiness of heart and life. Our tradition is too often said to be defined by particular beliefs, programs or polity. However, according to Wesley, the distinguishing mark of the people called Methodists was their singular striving after holiness of heart and life. Beliefs, programs and polity exist to move the people toward the goal of holiness.

Wesley’s definition of holiness is Scriptural: “the loving God with all our heart and soul, and our neighbour as ourselves. It is love governing the heart and life, running through all our tempers, words, and actions.” The purpose of the societies, class meetings, bands and corresponding “rules” was to form communities of social and personal holiness.

In their striving after holiness the Methodist societies became channels of grace for the world. They pursued peace, the shalom of God, as they followed Christ in their world by feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, clothing the naked, welcoming the strangers, caring for the sick, and visiting the prisoners.

As we engage in the practices of holiness it is important to always be reminded that they are only the means to a goal. Too often we focus on what we are doing for Christ and end up taking our eye off of Christ. We end up confusing the means (works of piety and works of mercy) with the ends (holiness of heart and life). The emphasis shifts from witnessing to Jesus Christ in the world to how I am blessed.

Therefore, we need to always remember that the General Rule of Discipleship and Covenant Discipleship groups exist to form communities of holiness. They do not exist for the personal benefit of individual members. The Rule and the groups are designed to equip congregations to participate in Christ’s mission in, with, and for the world.

In the United Methodist Way Covenant Discipleship groups are a means that lead congregations to “pursue peace with everyone, and the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.”

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Mike

2 Timothy 2:
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

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Fletcher

Hi Fletcher: Thanks for clarifying and thanks for the 2 tim text, I needed reminding.

Mike: Though the Methodist plan is for holiness, the Methodist actions are for ungodliness in the form of homosexuality. Voting for the acceptance of this sin is not love, its not holiness or conducive to the benefit of the Church community. In all points it's a lie.

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Marvin