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savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 God's Sovereignty in the Salvation of Men




https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3401

 2018/4/8 8:25Profile
TrueWitness
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Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 661


 Re: God's Sovereignty in the Salvation of Men

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/sovereig.htm

-Daniel

 2018/4/8 10:20Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: friends





Throughout his prolific ministry, Charles Spurgeon sought to maintain the important balance the Scriptures give to divine sovereignty and human responsibility. Perhaps no preacher ever held these two truths more carefully in balance. Being committed to the full counsel of God, Spurgeon embraced both truths with equal allegiance. He clung tenaciously to God’s sovereignty in the salvation of His elect, but he was equally convinced of the mandate to extend the offer of the gospel to every person. Emphasizing one of these truths to the exclusion of the other, he believed, would result in an unbalanced ministry.

Spurgeon was once asked how he could reconcile the apparent contradiction between these two truths. He replied: “I never have to reconcile friends. Divine sovereignty and human responsibility have never had a falling out with each other. I do not need to reconcile what God has joined together.” He confessed: “Where these two truths meet I do not know, nor do I want to know. They do not puzzle me, since I have given up my mind to believing them both.” Spurgeon simply embraced both divine sovereignty and human responsibility as clearly taught in the pages of Scripture.

 2018/4/8 15:23Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: God's Sovereignty in the Salvation of Men





"O the depths of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out" (Rom. 11:33).

"Salvation is of the LORD" (Jonah 2:9)

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=24843

 2018/4/10 5:15Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

From John Wesley, on Calvinism:
—————————/
1. This premised, let it be observed, that this doctrine represents our blessed Lord, “Jesus Christ the righteous,” “the only begotten Son of the Father, full of grace and truth,” as an hypocrite, a deceiver of the people, a man void of common sincerity. For it cannot be denied, that he everywhere speaks as if he was willing that all men should be saved. Therefore, to say he was not willing that all men should be saved, is to represent him as a mere hypocrite and dissembler. It cannot be denied that the gracious words which came out of his mouth are full of invitations to all sinners. To say, then, he did not intend to save all sinners, is to represent him as a gross deceiver of the people. You cannot deny that he says, “Come unto me, all ye that are weary and heavy laden.” If, then, you say he calls those that cannot come; those whom he knows to be unable to come; those whom he can make able to come, but will not; how is it possible to describe greater insincerity? You represent him as mocking his helpless creatures, by offering what he never intends to give. You describe him as saying one thing, and meaning another; as pretending the love which his had not. Him, in “whose mouth was no guile,” you make full of deceit, void of common sincerity; — then especially, when, drawing nigh the city, He wept over it, and said, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, — and ye would not;” EthelEsa — kai ouk EthelEsate. Now, if you say, they would, but he would not, you represent him (which who could hear?) as weeping crocodiles’ tears; weeping over the prey which himself had doomed to destruction!

2. Such blasphemy this, as one would think might make the ears of a Christian to tingle! But there is yet more behind; for just as it honours the Son, so doth this doctrine honour the Father. It destroys all his attributes at once: It overturns both his justice, mercy, and truth; yea, it represents the most holy God as worse than the devil, as both more false, more cruel, and more unjust. More false; because the devil, liar as he is, hath never said, “He willeth all men to be saved:” More unjust; because the devil cannot, if he would, be guilty of such injustice as you ascribe to God, when you say that God condemned millions of souls to everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels, for continuing in sin, which, for want of that grace he will not give them, they cannot avoid: And more cruel; because that unhappy spirit “seeketh rest and findeth none;” so that his own restless misery is a kind of temptation to him to tempt others. But God resteth in his high and holy place; so that to suppose him, of his own mere motion, of his pure will and pleasure, happy as he is, to doom his creatures, whether they will or no, to endless misery, is to impute such cruelty to him as we cannot impute even to the great enemy of God and man. It is to represent the high God (he that hath ears to hear let him hear!) as more cruel, false, and unjust than the devil!

3. This is the blasphemy clearly contained in the horrible decree of predestination! And here I fix my foot. On this I join issue with every assertor of it. You represent God as worse than the devil; more false, more cruel, more unjust. But you say you will prove it by scripture. Hold! What will you prove by Scripture? That God is worse than the devil? It cannot be. Whatever that Scripture proves, it never proved this; whatever its true meaning be. This cannot be its true meaning. Do you ask, “What is its true meaning then?” If I say, ” I know not,” you have gained nothing; for there are many scriptures the true sense whereof neither you nor I shall know till death is swallowed up in victory. But this I know, better it were to say it had no sense, than to say it had such a sense as this. It cannot mean, whatever it mean besides, that the God of truth is a liar. Let it mean what it will, it cannot mean that the Judge of all the world is unjust. No scripture can mean that God is not love, or that his mercy is not over all his works; that is, whatever it prove beside, no scripture can prove predestination.

4. This is the blasphemy for which (however I love the persons who assert it) I abhor the doctrine of predestination, a doctrine, upon the supposition of which, if one could possibly suppose it for a moment, (call it election, reprobation, or what you please, for all comes to the same thing) one might say to our adversary, the devil, “Thou fool, why dost thou roar about any longer? Thy lying in wait for souls is as needless and useless as our preaching. Hearest thou not, that God hath taken thy work out of thy hands; and that he doeth it much more effectually? Thou, with all thy principalities and powers, canst only so assault that we may resist thee; but He can irresistibly destroy both body and soul in hell! Thou canst only entice; but his unchangeable decrees, to leave thousands of souls in death, compels them to continue in sin, till they drop into everlasting burnings. Thou temptest; He forceth us to be damned; for we cannot resist his will. Thou fool, why goest thou about any longer, seeking whom thou mayest devour? Hearest thou not that God is the devouring lion, the destroyer of souls, the murderer of men? Moloch caused only children to pass though the fire: and that fire was soon quenched; or, the corruptible body being consumed, its torment was at an end; but God, thou are told, by his eternal decree, fixed before they had done good or evil, causes, not only children of a span long, but the parents also, to pass through the fire of hell, the ‘fire which never shall be quenched; and the body which is cast thereinto, being now incorruptible and immortal, will be ever consuming and never consumed, but ‘the smoke of their torment,’ because it is God’s good pleasure, ‘ascendeth up for ever and ever.’ ”


_________________
Todd

 2018/4/10 7:58Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: wes' marriage




If JW spent as much time as he did on this, with his wife, and learning from Him how to love his wife, he might not have wound up divorced from her.

To speak of love, one must first love his wife as Christ loved the church and laid down his life for her.

If one cannot obey such a command of Christ as this, such an one is as those of whom Christ said, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I command". Luke 6:46

It remains, "Salvation is of the LORD", regardless of those who'd rail against it!

 2018/4/10 11:41Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Red herring, poisoning the well, whichever you prefer.


_________________
Todd

 2018/4/10 12:20Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: prefer



I prefer the truth, which this definitely is. JW's marriage was a disaster. And if a man fails at home, we know that he's disqualified from ministry according to the Word of The Most High God, the Lord Jesus Christ, King of Kings, God of god's.

BTW - It's you Todd who are attempting to poison the well.

I posted links from the sermonindex website for those who have an interest.

If you'd like open a thread on whatever subject you wish, you may do so.

You've hijacked four current threads already. If you don't enjoy the ride, you can get your own plane and approach the runway and try to pilot it to your own private Idaho where you're livin.

Before doing so, be sure to engage the self-control button!

Auto-matic pilots are not very trustworthy as we've been learning from Uber.

 2018/4/10 12:41Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Your attempt to discredit Wesley’s statement by attacking him personally is poisoning the well- it’s a deflection tactic.

In the future, if you don’t want any discussion on the threads you start (which are clearly started to evoke heated discussion) then make it clear you don’t want any dissenting opinions. In other words clarify that is a non- discussion forum.


_________________
Todd

 2018/4/10 14:46Profile
narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re:

Leave John Wesley alone, please. His marriage was his cross to bear, his wife was horrible.
Did your ministry save more souls and spare a nation a bloody revolution?

Thank God for raising up Moody and Spurgeon, Wesley and Whitfield as contempories.

 2018/4/10 17:28Profile





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