...through suffering. Who was that? "Learn obedience through suffering"? Yea. And so did you, if you learned any that is. Jesus did it.

Heb 5:8 Although He was a Son, He learned [active, special] obedience through what He suffered
Heb 5:9 And, [His completed experience] making Him perfectly [equipped], He became the Author and Source of eternal salvation to all those who give heed and obey Him, [Isa. 45:17.]


Are we not His disciples? We claim to be. "But suffering"? I hate suffering. Suffering involves pain and agony. I don't care for that. But sadly, it is necessary. "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is as true in the spiritual realm as it is in the natural. We learn obedience through suffering, just as our Savior did. The only difference is that He did not have sin intermingled with His, and He suffered in our place.
"But Lahry, christians are not under the law". That does not give you license for ungodly disobedience. Over and over again God the Father and Jesus tell us plainly that obedience is the evidence of our love. So how evident is your love for God. Or mine? Think about how obedient you are. Ask God to show you. He is real good at shinning into dark places. Can He have a look in yours? Or mine? Oh my. This is difficult. But it is necessary.
My mama and daddy believed in the belt and the switch. A switch is a small limber branch off a tree or shrub. Oh God I hated those things. To make matters worse, my very dumb older brother decide it would be a good idea to plant a hedge row along one side of our front yard. Nobody bothered to trim them so they set there soaking up sun light and growing the best switches for teaching obedience you could ever imagine. I can tell you, that I learned to obey my parents not out of love, but out of fear of getting my hide tenderized by branch off those hedges.
Oh I was always seeking just how far I could push it, you know, without going "too far". Too often I pushed it a bit too far and paid the price.
Beloved, if we are God's children, we are subject to His chastisement. This involves suffering, though He is infinitely more patient and merciful than my parents were. I'm not dissing my parents. They should have tore me up more. But God is more patient and loving. But that does not exempt us from the pain of suffering.

Jesus was obedient unto all things, even death on the cross. If you have seen the movie "The Passion of the Christ", you know that this was painful beyond description. It was the ultimate obedient act. It is for us too. If only we will crucify the lust of our flesh and glorify God with our obedience. It is better for us to do than for Him too. His way is much more painful. We can be willingly and lovingly obedient, or suffer the consequences at the hand of God. He tells us plainly that He sets before us life and death, choose life.
Then we wonder why we suffer? Oh, the worst of that is that we blame the devil for our suffering. Does this not put us in the same class as those pharasees who said that Jesus had a devil in Him? Are we not blasphemous when we atrtribute the work of God to the hand of satan? Is this important to someone else out there, or is it just me? Yet we hear this all the time. If I can blame my "woe" on an evil spirit, then I dont' have to question the decietfulness of my motive for living in sin. Come on somebody. It's time we realized that pain is not always an evil thing.
Yes, we make bad choices, not sinful, just unwise, and we often pay the price, painfully. Pain, sickness, suffering, are all part of the fallen nature. But God knows how to love with protection as much as loving us with painful chastisement that causes suffering. So, to put it bluntly , if God has been taring your tail end up lately, you might ought to ask Him to make it clear why and stop to doing that.

I can't ever remember my parents striping my legs and back side for being obedient. Not once. One time I remember "chastising" one of my own children that I had wrongfully decided was caught in a fault. As it turned out, disobedience was that of a sibling, and not the one I "chastised". Oh God how that hurt me. Thank God, He never does that. You can rest assured that if you are suffering because God is trying to teach you obedience, that suffering is in your best interest. If you are suffering because of disobedience, there is noone to blame but yourself. Accept it. Ask God for the ability to not do that again. Rest in confidence that He can and will do that if you are sincere. God loves us when we are obedient. He delights in our obedience. Read John 14:21 and see what is the result. Praise God.
Had your tail end tore up by God lately? Let's talk about it.

Like my parents always said, " a hard head makes a sore behind". It's true, in the natural as well as the spirit. lol.

praising God for faithful parents,

Lahry

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Bryan

You make some good points here, disobedience does lead to suffering but I wonder, what would Job have said in response to this?

Jesus' sufferings prove that He was willing to test His obedience in the midst of affliction. We can learn from this that the deepest lessons of obedience are worked into our hearts when we are put into the furnace.


In Christ,

Ron

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Ron Halverson

I am enjoying this little thread...it is a good theme worth meditating on. That Jesus "learned" obedience is a mystery to me, though I sense He was perfecting His love for God while sharing our weaknesses. I wanted to add these thoughts to see how they might fit with the excellent ones already given.

I have heard it said that the Old Covenant promised blessing for obedience and we didn't like the bargain. Then the New Covenant promises suffering for obedience and many of us gladly accept the bargain.

What then is the difference? What is the real reason Christians learn obedience...to avoid suffering and find blessing? Hardly.

I've come to accept that the measure of our relationship to God is neither blessing nor cursing, but the dept of fellowship with His Spirit. Only a heart that knows the Love of God is blessed.

How do we follow the "law of reciprocity" and at the same time desire hearts that give away our cloaks also, selling all we have? Take away our cars, our properties, our health, and our friends, and we can still find joy in Christ. Take away our fellowship with Jesus, and all the blessings reciprocated through obedience are hollow to us. Even great spiritual gifts are nothing if we do not have that Friend who is closer then a brother.

God knows this so why would He be fretting about whether or not I have "blessings?" I think He is indifferent to these things---except by how useful they are to shaping our character and more importantly...improving our eyesight of Him as seen through a pure heart.

It is pleasing to God that we strive to conduct our lives according to Godly principles. Yet we don't live under the authority of lawful principles and equal measurements anymore...we live under the authority of a lawful Person who governs according to His perfect love and measureless wisdom.

Many here know this more then myself...all famine is painful but the only famine that a Christian need truly dread is a scarcity of the Word of God in our hearts. Learning to obey as Christ modeled, is not motivated by the promise of blessing, nor the threat of chastisement...but ultimately by a hunger and thirst for God.

MC

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Mike Compton

If I were in Austin, I'd give you a big brotherly hug. I love your gentle spirit and the sweetness of the Rose of Sharon leaks out of what you say.

Hugs in Christ Jesus,

Lahry