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Robert Wurtz II

not to seem forward or contrversial but i would say that he needs to probably finish the entire verse of 8:1, most people don't they take the top and leave the bottom. "There is no condemnation to them which are in Christ" and we springboard from there. finish it up and it clearifies what Paul is writing about in 7:21-25. (who walk not after the flesh but after the spirit)

As one member told me here ar SI, sit down with your pastor and air your grievences. You can always comprmise preference, but your can never compramise principal. I don't see having a dsagreement with leadership and discussing it with THEM, as a problem especially if there is error involved..

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David

A lot of problems with this stuff I have discovered is that we are seriously lacking in our application of the headship of Christ in the Church. The only "senior" positions spoken of in Scriptures are all in reference to Christ. Christ is alone the Head of the Church; He alone is the Chief Priest; He alone is the Apostle (contrary to man being the Pope); He alone is the Chief Shepherd (Master Pastor, Senior Pastor, Lead Pastor, or whatever other phrase you choose).

I think the reformers really understood this doctrine well when they were on trial for their lives and doctrines before a cardinal or pope, that they appealed to Christ for the final decision.

When we begin to better understand that Christ alone is the head of the Church, we should have no problem with spontaneous manifestations of the Spirit in service. No man no matter how anointed has the right to dominate any Church. Likewise, elders and the like should not feel threatened if another believer calls them on something, or holds them accountable.

So as a believer, if you see somebody over you in the Lord sinning, approach them in private and discuss with them whatever error you might see. If the error is in public, likewise don't be afraid to offer counsel in public. One of the elders at my church was recently teaching Sunday school. He has some word of faith/prosperity gospel leanings in his teachings. AT one point he taught that if you die of sickness, you are not going to heaven. Eventually, following the leading of the Holy Spirit, I simply raised my hand and contradicted what he taught with Scripture, in a loving, gentle, humble way, respecting him as my elder in the Lord.

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Jimmy H

I tend to think that if someone says they have "the anointing".. they probably don't.

Amen, Brother :-)

wow, that is actually amazing, i had never thought about the fact of "pastoring" being a gift. why do we not have a "prophet of the church" i would be intrested to see a thread started about this and have you Rt and Philogos expound on it a bit, or if you wanna pm me thats cool too.

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David

...sent me a pm of his last post,and I responded privately to him.

I don't feel liberty to continue with this discussion. I think others here are expressing the reality of it. Truth is always easily recieved by those who hear His voice. Untruth or half truth just sticks in your spiritual throat like a cotton ball in the natural. That is the leading of the Holy Spirit who will help us recognize error.

For a pastor to reject challange using the scripture "touch not my anointing" is to me reason enough to change pastors/churches, whatever. Get out of that mess. Pray for them, dust off your shoes and move on down the road.

In Him,

Lahry

Here is two messages that may apply very well here:

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=949]A Look At Authority 1: Spiritual & False [/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=944]A Further Look At Authority 2: Delegated Authority[/url] [i]by Stephen Kaung[/i]

[b]Description:[/b] This sermon looks at the nature of authority and also deals with the fact of false authority. It starts with Romans 13 and moves through many Scriptures dealing with authority, submission, and obedience. Kaung shows that only God deserves complete obedience and that he must be obeyed at all costs. The main message of the sermon can be summed up in this quote from the message: "God is the only authority in the Universe. There is no authority whatsoever except God himself -- and what God has given. … There is so much misunderstanding about authority; we mistake something that’s commonly accepted as authorities (sic) without really knowing what authority really is. … God is the one and only authority. Any professed authority that is not from God -- that is not God himself -- is not real authority, because God is the only authority in the whole universe. … The more you give, the more authority you have. The Lord Jesus said, ‘I gave myself a ransom for many.’ Because he gave himself as a ransom for many, the many come under his authority. If you want to be the first among your brothers and sisters, then you have to be a bond-slave, not only to Christ, but to your brothers and sisters.”

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Mike Balog

Mike
These two messages from Stephen Kuang are the best thing I have ever heard/read on this topic, and it has been a continual topic of interest to me for several decades! I think he really captures the true nature of biblical authority.

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Ron Bailey