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dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

That was good Mike thanks for posting it.


_________________
D.Miller

 2018/1/14 23:53Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1838
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Brother Dominic,

There are many Christians like yourself that pride themselves in knowing and quoting the Word of God that are ignorant of past moves of God because they lack discernment. John Macarthur is one of them. Some of the most learned theologians in the past have rejected true revivals because God did not move according to their preconceived notions of what a revival is suppose to look like. This is nothing new, and even in the Great Awakening, Johnathan Edwards was opposed by one of the leading pastors and theologians of the time, Charles Chauncy.

I have studied alot of revivals from the past even people like Andrew Murray and others, I am not ignorant. In fact it is because of what I have studied I am stating that Brownsville is a false revival.


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/1/15 15:18Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1838
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

When I was younger I had to move schools because of the Toronto Blessing, my friends at my state school thought the movement was crazy. It did a diservice to the Gospel as it made alot of my friends turn away from the faith. We still know some friends who decided they will not read there bible because they would rather have an experience
Experience should not be the be all and end all
Doctrine should be , what was preached from the pulpit as with Brownsville and Toronto experience trumps the word of God and the sermons are poor when you compare it to sermons of people like R A Torrey who was a revivalist after D L Moody, I have read all of Andrew Murrays book when at Uni

I wish you knew the damage movements like Toronto and Brownsville do to preaching the Gospel as I am out each Saturday preaching the Gospel in Hemel Hempstead

Brownsville Revival Exposed: The Root and Fruit of Apostasy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh7IAFgmgSU

Brownsville Revival - The Fathers Day Outpouring - June 18, 1995
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HceHGsCtxFY

When looking at the footage it reminds me more of the Toronto Blessing movement than it does the Revivals of the past century as I have studied them in detail from John Wesleys journals to R A Torrey to D L Moody to Johnathan Edwards, books written by them

“Take care that you do not take a false Christ, an imaginary Christ, a half Christ.” And what is the full Christ? The full Christ is the man who said, “I give up everything to the death that God may be glorified. I have not a thought; I have not a wish; I would not live a moment except for the glory of God.” You say at once, “What Christian can ever attain that?” Do not ask that question, but ask, “Has Christ attained it and does Christ promise to live in me?” Accept Him in His fullness and leave Him to teach you how far He can bring you and what He can work in you. Make no conditions or stipulations about failure, but cast yourself upon, abandon yourself to this Christ who lived that life of utter surrender to God that He might prepare a new nature which He could impart to you and in which He might make you like Himself.

Murray, Andrew. The Andrew Murray Collection: 21 Classic Works (Kindle Locations 10011-10017). Waxkeep Publishing. Kindle Edition.

How would you tell the difference between a true and false revival ?


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/1/15 15:29Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

Ok Dom, you win, we understand revival is just a bad thing, especially the Brownsville one. :-)


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Bill

 2018/1/15 17:40Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1838
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Revival is a good thing but false revivals like brownsville and Toronto and Lakeland do more harm to the body of Christ As true revivals give people a deeper love of the scriptures and of Christ and save souls without human intervention

I wish you could understand how much damage Toronto did to my life as I had to move school and church


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/1/16 3:40Profile









 Re:

Do we realky want rwvival?

I thinl we have seen the answer to that question. We rather debate revival instead of praying for it.

Blaine

 2018/1/16 4:41
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


When the Jesus movement was alive and powerful 60-70's there were no centralized outpourings.
What you did find were Christian leading other sinners to faith with ease. Churches popping up all over the place, Charismatics, Pentacostals, Non-denominational all grew and grew.

Hundreds of thousands came to faith in Christ and probably millions more with the evangelistic outreaches overseas in Africa Philippines, Indonesia.

It didn't look a thing like Whitefield, Edwards or the Irish or European revivals of long ago.

There were plenty of dissenters too.
Every cessationist had a hay-day complaining about the Holy Ghost meetings, the Baptists were mad because they were loosing people to the Pentecostals', and the old school Pentecostals' were unhappy because their people were joining the Charismatics and were flocking together

Were there excesses? Yep, Were there errors that started? Yep, Were there doctrinal differences that divided the Christians from one another? Big time.
Back in the late 70's I would never send anyone to a reformed church because their liturgies, doctrines and high Calvinism did all but tell a new Christian he needed baptizing in pickle juice to attain the necessary 'look' of the congregation. It was just over the top how old school churches would have nothing to do with the Jesus movement.

Those hippies just flooded in, yes, with all their baggage, worldly looks, long hair, scroungy looking clothes, the women dressed inappropriately at times...ahh it was the best of days.

A revival will not fit into whatever mold you think it needs to fit into. Doctrinally it will slide right by you. Someone will write books and articles on the danger of attending this 'love feast' that is tantamount to a pagan orgy. But, the reality is, what is happening didn't fit anyones paradigm and God seems to like doing things like that.

I despise 'guilt by association' judging.
I just used a syllogism in another post and I would not be surprised if someone said "yea, that compromiser Marv uses Aristotle to interpret the scriptures...you know he's going to hell" Keller says what? Piper did what with Warren? That Mohler guy ruining the Baptist Church? Did you hear about the guy? After a few years of this stuff and you realize they missed God by opening their bible...yes someone will bind me to the post for a good-ole burn-down for that one.

No one is making an argument to be undiscerning and just indiscriminately let any devil that can burp what sounds like a tongue on stage to testify.
But so much of it was not discerning...it ended up being other forms...Damage control, jealousy, fear, Satanic accusations, loss of status-quo. All of it packaged neatly in the form of 'concerned ministers wary of unbiblical and un-orthodox happenings at such-and-such meetings.'

Yes, we do want revival and Thank the Lord Jesus in his love will give us a revival...the real question is going to be..."Will you join or attack it?"


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Marvin

 2018/1/16 20:53Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3568
Louisiana

 Re:

Amen Brother Marvin!
I can relate to all that you
have said! We certainly didn’t
have it all together back then,
but we loved Jesus and each
other, and His presence was
with us.


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Mike

 2018/1/16 21:11Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


By the way I know of what I speak, I was right in the middle of the Jesus movement, having lived in Southern California. From 78 to 80 our Church went from about 500 to 3000 in two years...almost all of them young. Hippies, surfers, college people, homeless, druggies, you name it. God selected the best he had and sent them our way.

The doors were open 7 days a week, there were meetings of some kind or another every day and on Friday, Saturday and sunday multiple meetings of all kinds. Evangelistic outreaches, (which I was a part of), benevolent etc etc.

There but like all Churches we too had only a few hundred out of the congregation for prayer meetings, evangelistic outreaches at the beach or intercessory meetings.
Those days were precious, God was doing a wonderful work in our congregation...but we were only one of many many more doing exactly the same thing; such as Calvary Chapels, Vineyard and other non-denominational Churches.

Our pastor and congregation broke every mold, we were criticized by everyone at one time or another for something or another.

My point is not about "my Church" I am saying this 'happened' and no one had an instruction book to follow to make sure we dotted the I's and crossed the T's in order to satisfy our dissenting fans.

Did we have folks that got burned, or were treated badly or something went wrong with leadership or doctrine? Oh yea, and they did what I read about on the anti- New Calvinist website...write an article exposing those horrible Christians as near apostasy...don't go there. Some of what was said about us was true and we needed to repent, other stuff was simply not true.

I was an associate Pastor at the time.


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Marvin

 2018/1/16 21:17Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re: Marvin

Marvin said..... “By the way I know of what I speak, I was right in the middle of the Jesus movement, having lived in Southern California. From 78 to 80 our Church went from about 500 to 3000 in two years...almost all of them young. Hippies, surfers, college people, homeless, druggies, you name it. God selected the best he had and sent them our way”.


I’m 66, I saw that movement even starting to begin back in the late 60’s, I remember it very well, because I was a part of it. Marvin, you’re right! God brought forth Hippies, surfers, college people, homeless, druggies, you name it, but brother look at the testimonies that have come out of that movement. Don’t you love it when God goes against the grain of man? I would love to see another movement like that, and don’t be surprised if we do, the country is ripe for something like this to happen right now.


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Bill

 2018/1/16 21:55Profile





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