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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5615
NC, USA

 Re:

I think there is no formula. From my understanding of the Hebrides revival, it broke out before there was any preaching. There was prayer, and hunger by a few in the area, but many who sensed “God coming down” (as Duncan Campbell put it) were nowhere near a church but were in dance halls and the like and then went LOOKING for a church.

So the manifest presence of God is what revival is. All effects of revival flow from this.


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Todd

 2018/1/13 23:07Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3568
Louisiana

 Re:

God wrote a book called the Bible, the problem is Brownsville did not have the marks of a true revival which I tried to bring up with the points from d l Moody's book the overcoming life
there are clear ways we can differentiate the ways of men from the ways of God as true revivals give a true love of God word and repentance, a conviction of sin.

Brother Dominic,

If you would have visited the Brownsville Revival during those days, I do not believe that you would be saying these things. For all of the things that you are saying that mark a true revival were present at Brownsville.

As Todd and Brother Bill have mentioned, the Brownsville revival as all true revivals are marked by the presence of God being manifested in a dramatic way where sinners are saved, backsliders return to the Lord, and the Church of God is refreshed. The Brownsville Revival came out as all true revivals do as a result of prayer. The Holy Spirit anointed Steve Hill with powerful messages of repentance. Steve Hill was greatly influenced by the preaching of Brother Ravenhill and David Wilkerson.

Brother, you are also wrong in comparing the Brownsville Revival to what took place in Toronto. There were many manifestations of the Holy Spirit that took place in Brownsville, some of them being flesh, a few even demonic, but that does not discredit the true manifestations that took place as a result of this awesome move of the Holy Spirit.


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Mike

 2018/1/14 10:45Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1838
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

The brownsville revival was a false revival just like toronto it does not compare to things like the great awakening or even duncan cambells revival in the hebrides.

David Yonki Cho was convicted of Embezzlement recently he spoke at the Brownsville Revival

Founder of World's Largest Megachurch Convicted of Embezzling $12 Million
http://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2014/february/founder-of-worlds-largest-megachurch-convicted-cho-yoido.html

Michael Brown has been supporting Bethel church and has been standing up for Christ Alignment Ministries who support using tarot cards in there ministry

DUMPSTER FIRE: ChristAlignment Destiny Cards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Wa0Gx386d0

This is the fruit of the revivial when you compare to the revival of things such as D L moody and Ire Sankey who I informed you started some of the Revival during the 1900th century around the time of Charles Spurgeon who made the University of Oxford weep.
The fact in things like the Great Awakenings where the feeling of Hell was so great that they had to hang onto the Pillars because the conviction of sin was so great, Brownsville is just simply an entertainment fest with no

Steve Hill's Bible Twisting at Brownsville "Revival"
http://www.piratechristian.com/fightingforthefaith/2016/7/steve-hills-bible-twisting-at-brownsville-revival?rq=brownsville


Steve Hill Leaves Brownsville The Way He Changed It
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/hill.html

A True Revival will make these false ones look tame. It is like the difference between counterfeit money and true money and it does damage to the name of God

I Thessalonians
12 And we urge you, brethren, to recognize those who labor among you, and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, 13 and to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. Be at peace among yourselves.

14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all.

16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.

It is not like they are still hanging around dubious characters like Heidi Baker
https://cfanevents.ticketspice.com/light-the-fire-again

or Benny Hinn

This Is Your Day with Benny Hinn, Guest Dr Michael Brown Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPh61Vtbxd4

Read Sinners in the Hands of Angry God as Brownville the pushing people over the same thing experienced in the Toronto

Brownsville Revival Bridging the Americas Carol Arnott
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SabyeXDdKxI

Having Carol Arnott speak out at Brownsville who was a main leader at the Toronto blessing

With true revival people are not flown in as with the Scottish Revival God was convicting people on the street and people were running from the Dance Floor or in the Welsh Revival miners were not swearing any more.

2 Thessalonians 2
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness

If you have a love of truth and even Revival history it is so easy to see Brownville as fake as some rip of Jeans or copycat company it had no real fruit and to me I link it into the steady chain from Toronto to Pensicola to Todd Bentleys false revival

2 Corithians 2
7Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? 8I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service. 9And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself. 10As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia. 11Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.

12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Even the devil appears as an apostle of light and the devil can do false revivals
Even the Antichrist can pull fire down from Heaven

Revelation 13:13
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

When you know what true revivial is why should I settle for anything false as I grew up when the Toronto Blessing was in my school and there was crazy things going on, this is what brought my interest in true revival as things like Brownsville are in the Same category even with some of the same people who were into that craze.

Galations 1
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Titus 1:9
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

To me there is no sound doctrine in Brownsville as most of the sermons are on Youtube!

To me it is the difference between night and day what a true revival is compared to a false one and I have experienced enough false revival and I am desperately after the true !

Listen to J Edwin Orr and his history of Revivial!


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/1/14 15:56Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re: Dominic

One question, Dominic, did you take that log out of your own eye first, so you could see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye?


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Bill

 2018/1/14 16:16Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1838
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Please quote the whole passage as it


Matthew 7King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Verse 21 says many shall come in that day saying Lord, Lord and he will say depart from me I never knew you , Are you going through the narrow way or through the broad path.
Are you building your life on the sand or on the rock of Gods word!

In the same chapter it says beware of false prophets and false teachers in verse 15 we cannot look at this passage.

Trying to make an Ad hominem attack than actually rather dealing with the material as I have read things like D L Moody or books like R A Torrey. My first experiences of going on sermonindex was that everyone was talking about revival and when you know the difference between true and false revivals. You would want the true as these revivals promote men as revivals promote and revere things such as Gods word and a love of scripture and prayer.

I wish you had an understanding of the truth as it makes the false look bad knockoffs you get in an english market.


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Dominic Shiells

 2018/1/14 16:27Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
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 Re:

I didn’t ask for multiple scriptures, I ask you a question, can you please answer it?


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Bill

 2018/1/14 17:01Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3568
Louisiana

 Re:

Brother Dominic,

There are many Christians like yourself that pride themselves in knowing and quoting the Word of God that are ignorant of past moves of God because they lack discernment. John Macarthur is one of them. Some of the most learned theologians in the past have rejected true revivals because God did not move according to their preconceived notions of what a revival is suppose to look like. This is nothing new, and even in the Great Awakening, Johnathan Edwards was opposed by one of the leading pastors and theologians of the time, Charles Chauncy.

If you judge the Brownsville Revival by the fruit that came out of it, then it would be very easy to see that this was a true God sent revival that resulted in thousands of salvations, backsliders coming home, and many ministries being birthed that are still in operation to this day.

I was personally impacted by the Brownsville Revival, and am forever grateful to the Lord that there was a refreshing for the saints of God from the presence of the Lord.


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Mike

 2018/1/14 17:19Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re: Brother Mike.

Good word Brother Mike! Just seeing some working so hard to see this thread become fruitless, is probably why we don’t have the revival in America like we should. To many would rather be finding fault, than finding revival, but this is exactly the message God has in his word for us, for the last days. Praise Jesus!


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Bill

 2018/1/14 18:53Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5615
NC, USA

 Re:

I was personally changed by the Brownsville revival and I never stepped into FL while it was going on.

I found sermons and sermon compilations from Brownsville on the old Fire on the Altar website and they literally caused a revival in my own life that spread to my wife and numerous others in our circle of acquaintances.

Dom, you can deny that til your hearts content and you can step into your wayback machine and go back to the time of Whitfield and Evan Roberts to get preaching that will satisfy you. It doesn’t really matter what your opinion is because I and others know the reality.


_________________
Todd

 2018/1/14 19:39Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3568
Louisiana

 Re:

This is an excerpt from an article that is being taken from Sermon Index on the revival of 1860 in South Africa. This was a revival that Andrew Murray had been praying for, but when it came, this godly man attempted to restore order to a prayer meeting that had been taken over by the Holy Spirit. There was a brother at that meeting that warned Andrew Murray that this was indeed a move of God that was taking place. Andrew Murray later embraced the revival.

"Preparation for Revival
In 1860 Andrew Murray accepted a call to pastor the church at Worcester. His induction to the church
coincided with a revival and missions conference made up of 374 South African ministers. The conference was
planned for the specific purpose of encouraging spiritual revival and recruiting new workers and missionaries
for the Dutch Reformed churches of South Africa. At the beginning of the conference a paper was handed out
which traced the news of the recent revival in America and Britain. The attending ministers were strongly
encouraged to expect and pray for a similar move of God in South Africa. A Dr. Robertson spoke on their great
need for revival, followed by a Dr. Adamson who then gave a detailed report on the recent awakening in
America. Andrew Murray, Sr. attempted to address the gathering, but was unable, being overcome with
brokenness and tears. Overall, the conference was a great success, encouraging fresh hope and prayer among
the attending ministers.

Shortly after the conference, a meeting of young people was held at the church on a Sunday evening. It was
at this meeting that the Spirit of revival unexpectedly broke out. The meeting moved along as expected, until an
unassuming 15-year-old black girl stood up to pray. Mr. Murray's associate, J. C. deVries, was overseeing the
prayer meeting and gives us an eyewitness account of these extraordinary events. "On a certain Sunday
evening there were gathered in a little hall some sixty young people. I was the leader of the meeting, which
began with a hymn and a lesson from God's Word, after which I prayed. Three or four others gave out a verse of
a hymn and prayed, as was the custom. Then a colored girl of about fifteen years of age, in service with a
nearby farmer, rose at the back of the hall and asked if she too might propose a hymn. At first I hesitated, not
knowing what the meeting would think, but better thoughts prevailed, and I replied, Yes.' She gave out her
hymn-verse and prayed in moving tones.
While she was praying, we heard, as it were, a sound in the distance, which came nearer and nearer, until
the hall seemed to be shaken; with one or two exceptions, the whole meeting began to pray, the majority in
audible voice, but some in whispers. Nevertheless, the noise made by the concourse was deafening. A feeling,
which I cannot describe, took possession of me"

Offended by Revival
While this meeting was going on, Andrew Murray was preaching in another section of the church. He was not
present during the beginning of these events. When his own service was over, an elder passed the door of the
prayer meeting, heard the noise, peeked in, and then ran back to get Mr. Murray. J. C. deVries vividly recalls
Murray's surprising reaction to the young people's meeting, "Mr. Murray came forward to the table where I
knelt praying, touched me, and made me understand that he wanted me to rise. He then asked me what had
happened. I related everything to him.
Then he walked down the room for some distance and called out as loudly as he could, 'People, silence!'
But the praying continued. In the meantime, I kneeled down again. It seemed to me that if the Lord was coming
to bless us, I should not be upon my feet but on my knees. Mr. Murray then called loudly again, 'People, I am
your minister, sent from God! Silence!' But there was no stopping the noise. No one heard him, but all
continued praying and calling on God for mercy and pardon. Mr. Murray then returned to me and told me to
start the hymn-verse commencing 'Aid the soul that helpless cries'. I did so. But the emotions were not quieted
and the meeting went right on praying. Mr. Murray then prepared to depart, saying, 'God is a God of order,
and here everything is confusion!' With that he left the hall."

Revival Praying & Power
Prayer meetings were spontaneously organized every evening after that. The order of these meetings was
usually the same each time, although no one set it. At the beginning there was generally great silence; no
efforts were made to stir up emotions, but after the second or third prayer the gathering would suddenly
begin to simultaneously cry out in prayer. This was definitely not the custom of the Dutch Reformed churches
at that time, nor did anyone ever teach them to do this. Sometimes the gathering would continue until three in
the morning; even then, many wished to stay longer. As the people returned to their homes in the middle of the
night they went singing joyously through the streets. The prayer meeting quickly grew and had to be moved to
a nearby school building. Eventually, this facility also proved to be far too small for the crowds of God-hungry
seekers. "In places where prayer meetings were unknown a year before, now the people complained because
meetings ended an hour too soon! Not only weekly but daily prayer meetings were demanded by the people,
even three times a day - and even among children." The revival shook the entire countryside. The young and
old, rich and poor, blacks and whites were all equally affected by the revival.

Andrew Murray
awakening was not confined to the towns and villages, but felt in totally isolated places without outside
contacts, even on remote farms, where men and women were suddenly seized with emotions to which they had
been utter strangers a few weeks or even days before." People were frequently gripped with intense conviction.
Strong men cried out in anguish while others fell to the ground unconscious and had to be carried out of the
meetings.

Learning about Revival
J. C. deVries gives us a further account of Mr. Murray's difficulty in accepting these manifestations as from
God. J. C. deVries writes, "On the first Saturday evening in the larger meeting-house, Mr. Murray was the
leader. He read a portion of Scripture, made a few observations on it, engaged in prayer, and then gave others
the opportunity to pray. During the prayer, which followed his, we heard again the same sound in the distance.
It drew nearer and nearer and then suddenly the whole gathering was praying. That evening a stranger had
been standing at the door from the beginning of the meeting, watching the proceedings. Mr. Murray
descended from the platform and again moved up and down among the people, trying to quiet them. The
stranger then tiptoed forward from the door, touched Mr. Murray gently, and said in English, 'I think you are
the minister of this congregation. Be careful what you do, for it is the Spirit of God that is at work here. I have
just come from America, and this is precisely what I witnessed there."

Andrew Murray had been offended by the intense outbursts of emotional praying, and sought
unsuccessfully to control and calm the meetings. However, after this incident he apparently stopped trying
to manhandle the Holy Spirit. He learned to accept these sudden outbursts of prayer and strong emotions as
the work of God. His father, Andrew Murray, Sr. also confirmed that these stirrings were genuine, stating, "he
blessed God that he lived to witness such a work of the Spirit". Mr. Murray's strong reaction seems to stem
from the fact that these particular revival manifestations exceeded his own personal experience and sense of
propriety. Though he had earnestly prayed for revival, studied reports about revival and even witnessed a
measure of revival himself, he still failed to anticipate his own response to the supernatural nature of a revival
in his own church.

Revival & Broken Expectations
Mr. Murray's expectations about proper church order and that of the Holy Spirit's were obviously quite
different. Broken expectations, if left unchecked, can lead to confusion, frustration and even harsh criticism.
When the crowd in Jerusalem rushed to observe the miracle of Pentecost, Acts 2: 6 notes that many of the
onlookers were "CONFUSED". These feelings of confusion obviously caused some to become offended,
resulting later in them openly ridiculing the work of the Holy Spirit. -(Acts 2:6-13). Mr. Murray's new revival
experiences eventually taught him not to judge every seemingly confusing situation as the result of a lack of
proper order.

Often we experience strong feelings of confusion or even frustration when we are suddenly placed in an
unexpected or unfamiliar situation. All of us have surely struggled with feelings of confusion or anxiety while
trying to find our bearings in an unfamiliar city or country. The source of our confusion was not a lack of proper
order, but our own unfamiliarity with our new surroundings and circumstances.
Acts 2:6 is not suggesting that God is the author of disorder and confusion! On the contrary, this verse
serves to remind us that our natural sense of protocol and order is sometimes quite different than the divine
order of Heaven come down to earth. When we are suddenly surprised or confused by unfamiliar events, we
must guard against thoughtlessly
rejecting them simply because they are new to our personal experience.

Only a PROUD heart rushes in to condemn what it does not understand! We must carefully examine all
things according to the Scriptures, rather than by our personal preferences and traditions. Then and only then
will we be need to hold fast to what is good in the coming days. -(1Thes 5:21)."


_________________
Mike

 2018/1/14 20:56Profile





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