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dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: I think

Marvin is spot on, but the list can be so much more expanded. The problem becomes one of dependence on one hand and control on the other when we look at hearing God through others. Sometimes we get lazy and just want a word from God without spending time with God, than in comes the personal prophets with their controlling spirit. In all things no matter what I believe individually we need to be diligent to be good students of The Word of God and of seeking The God of The Word. In this age anyway. The early being without the Bible as we have it now that is.


As to dreams...... I could write several pages. I will spare you all here though. This too is an interesting subject , with an opening proposition by a well meaning preacher I am sure.


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D.Miller

 2018/1/10 21:35Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

Lot to study here, personally I just always thought "today" God would only speak to us through spirit and conscience, and of course his word. You know all the folks that say God spoke to me this and that, you want to believe them, and I usually do, but after all the folks that said they had the heaven and back experience, I don't know who to believe anymore. I surely don't believe any of the Heaven and back experiences... John 3:13 says..No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.


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Bill

 2018/1/10 22:14Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Brother Bill: Our faith in God's promises and design that he would speak to us need not be hindered by the silly and ridiculous. Doctrinally we have the exact same thing and we think nothing of obtaining right doctrine and practicing the truth.

Hearing God and following the Spirit of God is no different in terms of counting on God to teach us, putting ourselves in a place where the truth is lived out and preached, learning to related to others based upon the truth we know.

For me, when someone says "God doesn't speak to me, I go to the word and that's it, period" I think that's weird.
The next guys says "God tells me this, that and the other, plus where to park what to eat etc etc. I think that's weird. To me they're both way off base.
One errors on acquiring the truths of scripture, something has lead him to believe there is nothing for him but the written page. The other errors on discerning the Spirit of God, something has lead him to think God is little more than "ok google...I need"

Each extreme comes with its own special package of errors, extremes, fanaticism and of course a group of people who will not challenge or expose the error. Im not saying theyre heretics or loons ( though some surely are)

There are plenty of good preachers on this site to demonstrate the opposites and yet for all their dogma show they are just a foot or just a knee whatever and their sphere of knowledge is based on what they are.


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Marvin

 2018/1/10 22:57Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Marvin said....The other errors on discerning the Spirit of God, something has lead him to think God is little more than "ok google...I need"

That's interesting Marvin, "discerning the spirit" Doesn't discern mean to distinguish, to differentiate, or to perceive? 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Are the words "try" and "discern" different, or would they be the same.


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Bill

 2018/1/11 9:47Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Thank you Marvin for posting the scriptures.

Paul speaks in 1 Cor. 1-3 about the carnality that existed in the church of Corinth. At issue was the fact that they had begun to divide themselves according to the particular style or slant of the teachers that had influenced them. Paul says that this is evidence of their carnality. He contrasts this with his own ministry and its power in the Holy Spirit.

All too often we try to interpret scripture through our own carnal experiences (circumstances) or through the doctrinal slant of men who have taught us and with whom we have somehow become enamored either through their style, their personality, or the seeming wisdom of their words to our own carnal mind.

But this is not how God would have us interpret scripture, nor how he would have us receive revelation. He sent His Holy Spirit to do this work.

It seems to me that the OP pictured a pastor who did not believe in the supernatural voice of God speaking to us directly. Unfortunately, his doctrine on this matter will prove himself correct in his own eyes. His ears are closed to this type of ministry of the Holy Spirit.

However, I regularly experience God speaking to me. It is a daily thing. I have learned to hear His voice and it is becoming as natural to me as hearing the voice of my wife or a good friend. A week ago, in worship at our fellowship, the Lord began to speak to me. I took out my phone and began to write down what He was saying to me. A few days later the pastor became very ill and asked at the last minute if I could preach. I began to pray and God told me, "This is why I spoke to you Wednesday night. Unpackage what I told you and preach it." It was not an audible voice, but it might as well have been as I heard Him speak clearly to my spirit.

Paul says in 1 Cor. 2 that we, through the Holy Spirit, can know the very mind of God, His thoughts, His desires, His directions. I believe that without the ministry of the Holy Spirit, you cannot hear the voice of God. The natural man, the carnal or fleshly mind, cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God for they are spiritually discerned.

If I read scripture, but the Holy Spirit does not quicken it to me and make it alive, I can have an intellectual knowledge of what I read, but no spiritual understanding and no spiritual revelation. I am not to read scripture to know it intellectually. I am to read scripture to have it become revelation so that I might become what I am reading.

So even reading scripture to hear God speak requires the Holy Spirit to make it alive to my spirit, not just to my mind. I love to read scripture and have it leap off the page in living reality. I have, many times, been brought to my knees in praise and tears as God quickened His word to my heart. I have also had the same experience when He has spoken directly to my spirit.


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Travis

 2018/1/11 11:28Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1439
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Travis

AMEN!!!

This is very much my experience in the matter and find it to be a most valuable asset in this life. I mean where would I be without Him speaking to me directly and personally? I’ll tell you,... I’d be outta step with the Spirit of God. Call me crazy but I guess in my ignorance/innocence I believed He wanted to and would speak to me, so I believed and He does:)


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Fletcher

 2018/1/11 12:41Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:Travis

Thanks Travis! I'm all about wanting to hear God speak to me through the spirit, and I always thought he did. Travis, I did enjoyed this pastors sermon, but with some pastors now days, there can be some error, on purpose? I don't know, so we have to be careful, as this scripture clearly states in Ephesians. "As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming".
Ephesians 4:14


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Bill

 2018/1/11 13:10Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Mr Bill: Try and discern are essentially the same, but I believe they are different in a minor respect.

Discern= a type of judging that differentiates between the Spirit of God and a human spirit or demonic spirit or angelic spirit.
To Try the Spirit = a type of judging that acts as a kind of litmus test for the spirit. Such as when a prophecy is given and the leadership weight out the spirit whether it conveys a sense of the power and presence of God. If the spirit is judged as proceeding from God the message is then considered and it is judged as well in accordance with scripture.

Ive been in situations where I discerned the spirit speaking to us all was not of God, the message actually being spoken will in-general testify against the spirit that is speaking.
What I mean is the spirit speaking whether demonic or human may use Christian vernacular but it will not convey the sense of God that penetrates the hearts of the hearers.

Sadly I know of so few Churches that will permit public prophecy during a sunday service. This serves the enemy of our faith in that our leaders have no experience dealing with 'spirit' on a platform situation, nor do they learn to discern readily, they don't even pray about such a thing because they never expect such a thing, nor do they in general permit it.

The trick of course is with that inability to discern and try the spirit, anyone can "preach" now from the pulpit without any discerning other than maintaining a doctrinal alignment to their own Church dogmas. In effect, you can speak from the human spirit all day as long as you pay homage to various key/favorite doctrines of that congregation.

The gifts of the Spirit are not stupid, they are exceptionally wise and given for the growth of the Church.


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Marvin

 2018/1/11 15:51Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2007
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Mr. Bill: I am not implying that the pastor quoted was full of trickery, deceit, or was purposely in error. I am saying that the doctrine that we hold onto can have a strong influence on what we believe and experience. If we, like the Corinthian church, are enticed by man's teaching and allow ourselves to enter into a camp that follows a man's interpretation, then we can genuinely be led astray. I believe the idea that the only way God legitimately speaks to us is through the written word is the result of this man aligning himself with man's doctrines rather than receiving revelation from the Spirit of God. (If indeed that is what he is saying. I am only assuming this based on the limited wording in the OP) As a result of believing this, this is all he will experience because he has an a priori commitment to his doctrinal slant that would rule out any other option.

If in this case I have misjudged the man, then I am wrong about him. However, I believe what I have said holds true in general.


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Travis

 2018/1/11 18:10Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1530
Scotland, UK

 Re: How does God speak to us?

Quote - I recently was listening to a pastor and heard him say, if you want to hear God speak to you, read his word, if you want to hear God speak to you audibly, read it out loud. His message was on people that go around saying that God told me this and God told me that, or God placed this in my spirit. This Pastor said that God places messages in our conscience, I always thought he speaks to us through our spirit or circumstances, are we splitting hairs here with conscience and spirit? Are they really somewhat the same as for as receiving God's messages to us?

I think your splitting hairs.

When I was a trainee field hand I would really rely on God to help me in my job and still do but that's when I developed my listening.

At first you'll miss it; because you'll think it's your thoughts, sometimes if it's a more important matter you'll see an image in your mind and then hear his voice with very clear instruction, but mostly it's a whisper just like a thoughts.

For example I was in Saudi just as the 2nd gulf war started it was night time and I was traveling back to camp and went into a petrol service station to get a few things. When the thought came out of the blew "get out now". So I turned to my the guy I was in with and said "we must leave now" and we left without getting everything.

As we was leaving he was asking what's wrong, I said I don't know all I know is that we must leave we are in danger.

As we pulled out onto the highway this pick up truck turned in with a massive Palestinian flag flying out the back of their pick up truck. Now nothing happened but praise God I heard the voice and obeyed.

However there are other times when I have heard and did not heed the voice(like a thought) and it has cost me and ended up with a written warning, for causing a delay on the job which could have been avoided if I had listened more carefully rather than casting off the thought.

Hope that helps


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Colin Murray

 2018/1/11 20:49Profile





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