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Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Thanks Savannah for the kind words to me.


_________________
Marvin

 2018/1/7 22:13Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

The major problem in these forums has always been the weakness of the written word in dialogue, basically we have limited personal relationships and can not see things like humor or sarcasm,etc...so it is a weak system. In the early days Ron Bailey , who is featured on this site tried, I believe he also spoke ar some of the conferences too. He tried to do what you are suggesting and it was a very difficult thing and I am sure took tons of time from his already busy ministry schedule.. If you factor in personalities under anonymous headings people can say or act foolishly just for their own kicks. I Know Bill remember s as well as Frank and maybe a few others that have been on here a long time. So if you have fully counted the cost get ready for a wild ride and seeing nut cases come out of the wood works. Seriously, thread after thread will close or become fruitless. It may be beneficial to look at threads Ron Bailey and some that Robert Wersler started and see what you may be in for. Than just count the cost. God bless bro.dmiller


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D.Miller

 2018/1/8 0:14Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Brother Miller..So if you have fully counted the cost get ready for a wild ride and seeing nut cases come out of the wood works. Seriously, thread after thread will close or become fruitless.

This is sad but so true because I've witnessed it many times. Marvin, I'm not here to discourage you are anyone from participating in the forums, I didn't come here with an agenda, I come here to read and listen to some of the audio teachings. I can even count how many threads have ended like Brother Miller said, fruitless. Marvin, just remember just because you and I are on different roads, our destination is the same. I don't hold not one bad feeling towards you, or anyone here. Marvin, like Brother Miller said, we've seen the Marvin's of the past, try and accomplish the same agenda as you, the threads all start out pretty good, but start heading south pretty quick, when someone begins to disagree with something in the thread. The one really sad thing is, not many/any of the deep Theology threads ever end very gracefully.

The deeper the Theology, the more disagreements you will see in almost every thread. This is why I have mentioned in some of my posts, that I feel it's better to stick with the simpler Theology, and it also gives the new or unlearned christian the ability to participate. There's not really anything else to say, Marvin your're a smart man, you understand what I've said, but if you have the patience to deal with the feedback you will get in many deep Theology threads, I say go for it! No one should ever let man discourage us from a calling we feel God has placed on our heart. We should all be a Paul! Paul knew that he was not all that he should be, as he endeavored to complete God's calling for his life, but he kept working towards that goal. Paul never let anything separate him from obeying and following after God's will regardless of how difficult the situation became or how challenging the disappointments. Sometimes not even the simple to understand threads end very gracefully, I can't think of a simpler subject than the one on marriage and remarriage, scripture is very, very plain on this, but go read those threads, it gets rough in some of those threads.


_________________
Bill

 2018/1/8 9:17Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Hi Brother Bill:

My agenda is two fold, to offer what God has shown me, submit it for others to scrutinize and accept. I believe this is normative for Christian men/women who want to learn the truth of God from one another.
Secondly to encourage others in what they believe, I have no underlying agenda to conform everyone here to my way of thinking. I will offer what I believe to be a correction, or even a refusal. Yet, the vast majority of what I have read has been consistent with scripture and hopefully I am consistent myself.

I didn't ever intend for a difficult topic to become a means of division.
A peace-time mindset among believers can be harmful. Namely, when disagreements occur, and they will, we easily dismiss our brothers and find new ones who are more agreeable to our views and who will pat us on the back for getting rid of our dissenters. This is not my view, I believe it is anathema to mutual love and edification.

I introduced apologetics because I enjoy it, it has been used of God to strengthen the body of Christ and it can be helpful to all believers no matter what their education, intellect or spiritual strength.

As to "deep theology" being divisive; anytime we go beyond the cursory view of any topic our own understandings of things ( being what they are) always, and I mean always conflict with others. We don't articulate the same even when we fully agree with one another. We don't understand with equal clarity some thing even when at its base we are in full agreement.
As is stated directly below this post-window there is a way to speak to one another and it should be followed.
Lastly not every disagreement need be debated, I offer explanation on things that I am not in a debate over, I am simply articulating a viewpoint. I know others feel or believe opposite views expressed strongly must of necessity be argumentative and therefore a divisive posting.
I do not read opposing opinions as such, unless they are stating emphatically their posting is more than disagreement its "we are divided and you are not on my side anymore".

I know I become a member post-apocalyptically ( pun intended) after some blow-out in the past. My intention is peaceful discussion and sharing information not conformity, anger and dissention that may have occurred in the past.


_________________
Marvin

 2018/1/8 16:23Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Marvin said...My intention is peaceful discussion and sharing information

First Marvin great post! I also do believe your intentions is to have a peaceful discussion. I may be totally wrong here, but I don't believe everyone here has your same intentions. I have seen some threads become argumentative, by the third post, perfect example the "Tim Keller's False Gospel (Antinomianism)" thread. Sometimes I wonder if most Christians have a problem with correction, it sure seems true here. Maybe sometimes like me, it's good not to know so much, so I able bail out pretty quick on these threads, before the debate get way out of hand, and I've seen it happen here many times. I have no answer to help correct this, and most likely it will never be corrected, because you will never find many Christians that will totally agree on everything, and to add to that, not many will accept correction, they will argue with you till Jesus comes back if allowed. I personally don't like arguing, regardless of the subject, I've never been an argumentative person,"I would make a terrible attorney" :-) but I do know many that Love to argue, but I do realize God made us all different.


_________________
Bill

 2018/1/8 16:42Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Brother Bill thanks for the compliment.

Knowing a lot doesn't make you argumentative, a kind of disposition, a competitive spirit, prideful spirit, mean spirit leads many to argumentation.

I have all of that in my old man he attempts to jump down from the cross from time to time and assume his old job...living unto himself.

Yet, deeper in me is what I know God has made me, determined to expose the truth, willing to take the brunt of accusations and attacks. These things God has done in my so that he might speak through me and accomplish his will.
I am a long ways from all that Jesus wants to live and speak through me, but denying what God has made me only compounds confusion in me and gives even more room for the 'old Marv' to set up camp and keep Jesus from receiving what he purchased me for.

This same thing is true of you brother, though gifted differently it's Jesus living his life through me, uniquely me and uniquely you that brings glory and honor to him.


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Marvin

 2018/1/8 20:19Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
The major problem in these forums has always been the weakness of the written word in dialogue, basically we have limited personal relationships and can not see things like humor or sarcasm, etc...so it is a weak system….. Seriously, thread after thread will close or become fruitless. It may be beneficial to look at threads Ron Bailey and some that Robert Wersler started and see what you may be in for. Than just count the cost.


I remember those days when threads were locked. I perceived the problem as lack of knowledge or skill needed to think and explore, to ask thoughtful questions, debate with respect. Some seemed bent to react instead out of “fight or flight” adrenalin instincts. Maybe some preferred the delicious thrill of combat and victory. [As an “outsider” from Canada, I wondered if that was part of American culture – where people are shaped in a society which seems instinctively combative (There’s always opposing sides)]
Unfortunately, posters who submitted reasonable discussion topics got their threads shut down. It was frustrating, and some just drifted off or stuck to “safe” topics. You spare the headache of obnoxious posters or tedious topics, but you can lose your best thinkers and you miss critical topics. That’s a risk too.

I say, people like Ravi Zacharias, Tim Keller, etc can teach us how to respond to objections, questions, differing ideas… by their example. (See Youtube) Maybe someday we can take an example and analyze their work.


_________________
Diane

 2018/1/10 16:37Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Diane: Thank you, thank you, thank you for saying concisely what would take me a dozen posts to say.

Diane said:
"Unfortunately, posters who submitted reasonable discussion topics got their threads shut down. It was frustrating, and some just drifted off or stuck to “safe” topics. You spare the headache of obnoxious posters or tedious topics, but you can lose your best thinkers and you miss critical topics. That’s a risk too.

I say, people like Ravi Zacharias, Tim Keller, etc can teach us how to respond to objections, questions, differing ideas… by their example. (See Youtube) Maybe someday we can take an example and analyze their work"

This was my intent from the outset, there are so many good apologists dealing with subject matter germane to all our lives and the cultures in which we live. I think we should look at those topics, talk about them and consider the apologetic responses given. It may be heady for some, but it will never become understandable if left out of the conversations completely.

Yet, when I say heady, there is plenty of material available for the novice to dive into and enjoy, learn and integrate it into their thinking.


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Marvin

 2018/1/10 18:07Profile









 Re:

Dianne writes...

""I say, people like Ravi Zacharias, Tim Keller, etc can teach us how to respond to objections, questions, differing ideas… by their example. (See Youtube) Maybe someday we can take an example and analyze their work.""

Well said sister. I wonder if that would also include Joseph Prince. I believe he has a better apprehension and understanding of grace then some in the forum.

But then I was one of the few that read the book and watched the movie The Shack. And actually found redemptive value in it.

But then I am one who holds the minority position on those things in this forum. I suspect that one day I will be banned for some of my hetetical view points. Such as believing in grace. Such as believing one can be remarried after divorce. Such as believing that God can speak outside of the Canon of scripture. Certainly if these things will not get me banned from the forum they would get me burned at the stake.

Blaine

 2018/1/10 18:24
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
I suspect that one day I will be banned for some of my hetetical view points.

Oh... I didn't mean to chuckle when I read your comments, Blaine.

Of course it's possible to have the right view point and be obnoxious and arrogant in our defense. (God forgive me for the many times I've been guilty, and may others point it out if they see it.)


It occurred to me that we can learn from those orators who are not on our "approved" list, maybe try to see their reasoning. We can sure learn from bad orators: by examining their inconsistent logic, sloppy thinking, use of unsubstantiated opinions or propensity to merely mimic others. It's not hard to find those kinds: just watch media folk. They surely remind us of our need to develop critical skills. And if we don't bother, then we are no better than them, even if we are "right" and they are "wrong".




_________________
Diane

 2018/1/10 19:54Profile





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