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Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Confusion



How to be right and terribly wrong in the same sermon.


https://www.facebook.com/chrisnpamela.adams/videos/10155242692211169/

What do you all think?


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Marvin

 2017/12/29 15:20Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Confusion

James3:27. The lot of the ministry is that they may offend. However if we do not forgive our Father in Heaven will not forgive us, that’s a precept. I think about all the things in pop culture happining where people are coming forward after 20 or 30 years and they accuse someone of wrong doing. I think to myself , “ man that is a long time to hold unforgiveness”. I do not hear much straight forward preaching these days, that Facebook message, I do not know, I do not believe his dream/vision was Jesus but it’s hard to say where he is at in his Christian growth. It does not sound as if he has grown to a level of understanding where he has embraced the Word of God written as the cross of Christ yet and he still needs milk or emotion to move him to action. Just some thoughts.


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D.Miller

 2017/12/29 15:43Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5610
NC, USA

 Re:

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
Matthew 25:45

Isn’t the principle the same as the point he is making in the video?

What is off-putting is that he says Jesus asked for forgiveness which seems strange to us. In actuality Jesus was asking vicariously which seems odd but I am not sure whether the idea behind it is obviously incorrect. I would need to think on that.


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Todd

 2017/12/29 17:00Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1838
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

I would run away from Bethel as fast as you can


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Dominic Shiells

 2017/12/29 17:34Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

I understand what he is saying but why would Jesus introduce a new teaching when He already laid a foundation of forgive and it shall be forgiven you.
The grace part of me is willing to give him a pass as a very immature believer who possibly is preaching for the first time and has little or no bible background maybe like a new believer.


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D.Miller

 2017/12/29 17:45Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Psa_145:17 The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.

A couple of things.
1. Passing judgment on the man is Christ's job, I do not see from this short clip that he is intentionally seeking to introduce heresy. But heresy is being introduced.
2. I believe in Spiritual things, dreams prophecy etc. If I were in leadership there, I would have told him he is wrong to think Jesus asks forgiveness for sins committed against us by other Christians. This is confusion and error. One thing is not the other. The believer may sin, but that sin is not the sin of Jesus, therefore Jesus asking forgiveness for sins I might have committed against you is a distortion of the atonement, a distortion of what it means for Christ to identify with his believers.
3. About a 100 questions can be generated from this kind of thinking. example. If I sinned against you, it would be incumbent upon Christ to ask your forgiveness, and for everyone who is Christian, that has sinned...Jesus would be obligated by his own word to confess and not only ask forgiveness but repent as well. If he has not been asking your forgiveness for the sins of Christians committed against you, he has been negligent and in more sin. (I say this rhetorically, it's blasphemous to even consider)
You see, this heretical thinking propagates nothing but more heresies and blasphemous ideas.
There is no shortage of distorted and erroneous ideas about Jesus that would emerge from such a dream being passed off as a legitimate encounter with Christ.
4. If his elders didn't know of this dream and the preaching of it, they should have offered a correction or retraction or both. If his elders did know, they wrongly permitted heresy/blasphemy to be preached about Jesus.
5. For me, and I'm only stating my own response would be A) stand up and tell him he is in error, that no such encounter is biblical
B) walk out and consult the elders and leaders later.
6. This prophetic/dream was not judged as it should have been.
7. Correction of error is designed for maintaining right doctrine, right practice, and help for others attempting to listen to God's Spirit. I hope for the sake of the Church at Bethel and the body of Christ at large they issue a correction.


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Marvin

 2017/12/29 18:18Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5610
NC, USA

 Re:

Ii agree with Dom that Bethel is problematic- I didn’t realize that this was a bethel clip.

I think if you want to give him tons and tons of grace that he is suggesting something along the lines of a CEO of a major corporation apologizing for the bad acts of a wayward employee. I recall the video of a Fed Ex driver throwing packages around and the CEO apologizing for such egregious behavior even though the CEO had nothing to do with the direct oversight of the employee or his bad acts. But because the jerk employee was symbolic of FedEx the CEO was correct in apologizing.


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Todd

 2017/12/29 18:44Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re: Confusion

Weird. That is what I think.

Imagine Jesus asking this man to forgive him??!! Never read anything like this in all of scripture.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/12/29 22:12Profile
havok20x
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Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 804


 Re:

I think the the enemy was simply wrapping up this false statement with a bunch of sugar coated nonsense:

"Any thought that accuses a brother had its origin with he devil." Okay.

So those very few times where I approached a brother about false teachings or sin in his life and he repented was caused by the devil? Any time a brother approached me about sin in my life and I repented was from the devil? This seems like a subtle strategy by the enemy to shore up Bethel's already dangerous teachings and cast guilt upon dissenters.

 2017/12/29 22:49Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Nathaniel: Sometimes suggestions like this are very subtle and what you said can very well be true. But we also want to understand the context of his statement which he may very well change in another context.


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Marvin

 2017/12/29 23:03Profile





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