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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The Poison of sour grapes

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 Re:

No problems Marvin, I am simply amused at the people who have to announce that they never said they agreed with the original post. The post is based on a proverb which is quoted in Ezekiel 18, the post is not based on Ezekiel 18, its a simple as that. But in the spirit of partisanship that the original post alludes to, one must announce that they agree or disagree with the post. Deep sigh. My suggestions to people who feel the need to correct rather than to add to and edify, just simply sit quietly in prayer and see if the Lord will speak to you and if He does, come and share. But beware :)..........bro Frank

 2017/12/27 22:53
dspks
Member



Joined: 2006/3/15
Posts: 168
Dakotas

 Re:

I was totally mislead by your first post... thinking that the only verse that you quote and refer to through out your post was the verse you based your post on.

I guess.. I missed the original portion of scripture you based your post on... ????

 2017/12/28 9:57Profile









 Re:

Dspks, my post is based on a ancient Hebrew proverb quoted in Eze 18, my post has nothing to do with Eze 18 the chapter which is teaching something very different.......bro Frank

 2017/12/28 10:03
dspks
Member



Joined: 2006/3/15
Posts: 168
Dakotas

 Re: Confused

So your post is based on the truth contained in this proverb:

“...The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge?” Ezekiel 18:2, KJV.

??

 2017/12/28 11:26Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Hi Frank:

I was not going to respond further but I felt it best to be direct on this subject.

The proverb. Eze 18:2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

The proverb sets up the basis for the remaining text in Ezekiel 18. So it cannot be true that the proverb is divorced from the remaining chapter or that to use the proverb outside of Ezekiel's interpretation of what the Jews meant and why God said...Eze 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.

Without going into lengthy exegesis, the summary is simply The Fathers who sinned against God (ate sour grapes) are not the cause of Israel's hardships and judgments. The Children themselves are guilty of their own sin (children's teeth set on edge).

Jeremiah helps with a quick summation of exactly what I quoted and commented on. Jer 31:29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

The proverb is a distortion of the Exodus text I spoke of earlier which Israel had twisted into a falsehood. That falsehood being that Their fathers sinned and the children are bearing the brunt of God's judgment when in their own minds they are innocent victims of their fathers sinful failures.

God of course is refusing and correcting such error by telling them they are suffering because they are sinning as their Fathers did...and as Jeremiah said.
Jer 16:10 And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?
Jer 16:11 Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law;
Jer 16:12 And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:

Jeremiah explicitly says "ye have done worse than your fathers".
The children are to be blamed for their own sins and God's punishment that comes to them because of their own sins.

I wrote all of this for clarification, not that you were contesting any of the above interpretation.
But mentioning it because the proverb is directly relatable to the context and its interpretation is declared by a lengthy explanation by the prophet.

What I am getting at is your initial OP you stated
"Once we teach our children to reject authority then hell follows in its path and society is drawn down into the abyss. The children's teeth are set on edge, God, help the children."

You used the phraseology of the text to illustrate a failing characteristic in our society, as I understand this, the phraseology of the text doesn't lend itself to your characterization.

You actually came back later and said...
"it is wonderful to know that God does not judge the child for the sins of their father unless the child takes up the sins of his father which is what my post is about....."

I think maybe this led to some confusion.

Your last statement is what prompted my response to you elaborating on how our society shows a progression of God rejection for which our own children's teeth are set on edge by reason of their own sinful choices.

Lastly, I offer this as an academic not an argument against the sentiments you expressed.


_________________
Marvin

 2017/12/29 14:36Profile









 Re:

The proverb in Ezek 18 was used to show that God was saying that He would not judge the children for the sins of the father. Now we know that is a fact, but it did not change nor has it changed the fact that we can indeed raise a child with hatred and humiliation and violence, for instance, and that child will, in the normal course of events, follow how he was raised. This is the sour grapes of bad parenting. One can also raise up a child in the way that they should go, in the fear and the admonish of the Lord and that child will be in a better place, have a better start on life. That's all brother, nothing to technical..........bro Frank

 2017/12/29 18:16





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