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 Re:

Quote:
I was polite but I don't waste my time engaging in worthless debates.



You may consider contending for the purity of God's Holy Word to be a waste of time... but I personally have a higher regard than that for it.

But bible version debates is NOT my intention here. Hopefully we wont get side tracked.

Anyway... my point is that Zondervan publishes 2/3's of the Bibles that are in print. They own the copyright to the NIV. Zondervan is owned by a secular company. So are most of the Christian publishing companies now.

You should check out the publishers of the Bibles you own or buy. Not every one of them is published by well meaning Christians. That may be the case at Zondervan itself, but the money flows upward... into the pockets of secular companies.

Now, Zondervan does publish [i]some[/i] KJV Bibles, but there is NO copyright on the KJV, so they do not have sole ownership of the text like they do the NIV.

But what I'm saying is... if you are going to judge Christian musicians by this standard, then you better be real careful who is publishing the Bible you're reading, and who owns the copyright. Same thing for any Christian books you buy. Some of the big Christian book store chains are also secular owned at the top. Check the money trail, because if you dont, then you are being hypocritical. Your money is ending up in the hands of secular companies.

When I buy a Bible (KJV) I ONLY buy it from Christian publishers who are NOT secular owned. There are many smaller publishers out there who publish only the KJV, and they Christian owned and operated.

Now, understand... I agree with you. I do not like the fact that most CCM is secular controlled. But I can and will not judge a Christian musician's motives or walk with the Lord. I dont know them. I can judge what they say and preach and sing about... and draw conclusions from that... but I can not simply say they are compromised based on who they signed a contract with. Not even Steve Camp or Keith Green did that.

Krispy

 2005/6/28 8:40
Des
Member



Joined: 2004/9/4
Posts: 39
Washington State

 Re:

Krispy,

As a young Christian I briefly attended a Willow Creek based church that used Zondervan's Not Inspired Version. I quickly found out about secular owned publishing companies and the NIV. You are preaching to the choir.

I buy my books from [url=http://www.pilgrimdiscount.com/]Pilgrim Discount.[/url] They're an independent store.

Quote:
Now, understand... I agree with you. I do not like the fact that most CCM is secular controlled. But I can and will not judge a Christian musician's motives or walk with the Lord. I dont know them. I can judge what they say and preach and sing about... and draw conclusions from that... but I can not simply say they are compromised based on who they signed a contract with. Not even Steve Camp or Keith Green did that.



Did you read 2 Corinthians 6:14-15 and [url=http://a1m.org/page.php?page=template10.php&pageid=fcf54d19dd342ec4d0b163b23018f777]Steve Camp's 107 Theses: A Call for Reformation for the CCM?[/url] The Bible is crystal clear about being unequally yoked with unbelievers. I will stand on the truth of God's Word, not the wisdom of man.

Hell Is Burning While The Church Sleeps,

Des


_________________
Des S.

 2005/6/28 12:27Profile









 Re:

Whatever man... we are in agreement, so I'm kinda losing focus on what it is that we're debating. I just dont think you can run around pointing out fellow believers and telling everyone that those folks are compromised... when you dont even know them, and you're basing your opinion on one aspect of their lives.

Should Christian artists sign with secular companies? NO, not if they consider what they do to be ministry. If they want to call it what it is... entertainment, and admit that they are in the biz merely to entertain and not minister... then it's no different than working a secular job.

But I refuse to point a finger at Steve Curtis Chapman and say "He's a compromiser! Everybody look... he's a compromiser." I just dont know how someone can do that when you dont know the person's heart.

This is completely different from pointing out a heretic. What you're doing is pointing out indivisual people's sin publicly. That is unscriptural. If you find a false doctrine in KJ-52's songs, then by all means... go public with it. Thats scriptural. But to call the man a compromiser when you know nothing of his motivations? No, you're wrong.

I contend that if you're honest and you dig deep enough... you'll find compromise in you're own life. I do. Everyone does who is honest. Keith Green did right until the day he died.

There is merit to the debate of whether Christian artists should sign with secular owned companies, and I agree with the premise of your argument. What sparked my contention here is when you called two artists compromisers. You are not their judge.

Krispy

 2005/6/28 13:23









 Re:

Quote:
Hell Is Burning While The Church Sleeps



I appreciate your zealousness... it is refreshing to see someone consumed with holiness. Just be sure to mix mercy and love with into that stew. It comes with time and experience...

Krispy

 2005/6/28 13:34
Des
Member



Joined: 2004/9/4
Posts: 39
Washington State

 Re:

Krispy,

This will be my last post concerning this subject. We are ambassadors of Jesus Christ. We represent Him to this dying world. Unfortunately the CCMI believes that by partnering with the world they will reach the lost. That is completely wrong! 2 Corinithians 6:14-15 I have seen the bitter fruit that it has produced.

God's Word clearly warns us against being unequaly yoked. Read about Samson and Delilah. Phillistines equal the world today.

You never see our Lord being sponsored by the world in His three years of earthly ministry. No servant is greater than his master.

Matthew 4

1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Some people want to live Within the sound of chapel bells
But I want to run a mission
A yard from the gates of Hell
And with everyone you meet

I'll take them the gospel and share it well
And look around you as you hesitate
For another soul just fell

Let's run to the battle
Run to the battle

Run To The Battle, Steve Camp

God bless,

Des




_________________
Des S.

 2005/6/28 14:10Profile
mloaks
Member



Joined: 2004/5/13
Posts: 129
So. MD, USA

 Re:

Great thread!
Hmm...
Working for a secular label is no crime, but is wrought with dangers. Like preaching from a streetcorner?
Women Pastors are fine with me if they submit to their husbands spiritually and biblically. At our ELCA church, as much as she is able, our Pastor ministers to us as all the women did for Christ; notice how Christ was ministered to by women mainly, and had to straighten out the men much more often? But I do dislike women with real short hair, so some of Paul's teachings resound with me! :-P

Seriously, music and women are something all male beleivers better take real seriously, and it sounds like y'all do...

 2005/6/28 15:22Profile









 Re:

Yep, Des... we agree 100%.

You just choose to ignore the point I was making. But thats ok... no biggy.

Krispy

 2005/6/28 15:52
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 2359
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Are we trying to sanctify something that is unholy!!!


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2005/6/28 16:03Profile
inotof
Member



Joined: 2005/1/7
Posts: 267
Morehead, KY

 Re:

i'm experienceing deja' vu. i have not been on in a while and it seemed like this debate was rolling when i left. at any rate. i'm for ccm to some degree but i also see the product of tkaing it too far. don't believe me look at xx-church (not sure if that is the correct website so don;t go there) but a bunch of pastors are trying to reach the porn addict with porn, it is a very terribile web site. it just goes to show you that ccm CAN be, though not always, a very dangerous "tool" for the gospel. here's the real question. if the intent is to reach the lost, then why do we listen to it? are we listening to the gospel presented in a culturally relvant format or is it we b flippin' the wax to some phat beats that are the equivelent to the secular so that we look or feel relevant or cool? just one of those things that make you go hmmmmmm. . 8-)


_________________
David

 2005/6/28 16:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:
but a bunch of pastors are trying to reach the porn addict with porn



You're kidding me...

If this is true, then those who 30 years ago who asked the question (concerning CCM when it was first starting) "What's next? Christian porn?" have been vindicated.

Krispy

 2005/6/28 16:40





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