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Discussion Forum : General Topics : End times stuff and Jerusalem the capital city.

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ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re:

Interesting how others are saying what I have concluded, too...many of these judgments as described in Revelation are describing the same event but from a different perspective. (We know the Gospels did the same with the life of Jesus.) I generally do not share this sense much because I was not sure how to explain it although I did start with drawing a chart but got sidetracked and never finished it. And if you do share this someone will be sure to come and knock it down, but even then the conviction still remains.

In observing the conflicts that have engulfed society, reading Revelation gives me a sense of peace because we are told that all calamities are happening under the supervision of God. And....history teaches us the world is EVIL and we have to learn to accept that it always will be until Jesus return.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2017/12/16 11:35Profile









 Re:

Dominic writes.........

"The reason I do not believe it is a peace treaty because it is not clear from this verse , to me from this passage it says sacrifice and oblation shall cease and that cannot happen in a non literal temple I also struggle with it being a peace treaty as there has been so many peace treaties with Israel which one is it and it is not clear from the scriptures that it is a peace treaty"

Lets suppose brother, that the temple is you and I. Do you praise God brother publicly on a Sunday morning or at other times? Is that not the sacrifice of praise? Oblation simply means to present or offer something to God. I believe that the anti-christ will rid the public square of all things holy. They will cease to be and he will cause it to be so. Any saint, in those days, who tries to praise God or honor God or exalt His name anywhere publicly will be rounded up.
As for the treaties, this treaty, this comprehensive treaty will take place in the 70th week, so, at the end of times.

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.(Dan 12:7)

God's people shall be scattered for three and a half years and just when it looks dire and without hope,then God shall come. Just as in the public ministry of the Lord, three and a half years ending in the humiliation,torture and horrific death of Jesus and darkness covered the land and then, up from the grave He arose with a mighty triumph oer His foes!!! Victory from the very jaws of what seemed like certain defeat. The victory for the saint comes in the depths of the dungeons. Those who will prevail are those who shall endure and overcome. If we love God more than life then we shall endure until the end and not just endure but cry glory even in the midst of gross darkness. The enemy shall never silence the praises of His people even though He try to kill everyone of us to shut the mouth of Jesus. The enemy killed every child of a certain age in a great slaughter and laments were heard, but, hark the Herald angels sing, glory to the new born King, above the weeping of grieving mothers the cries of our deliverer was heard. The enemy failed and Christ prevailed and as it was then so it ever shall be until that day dawns and the morning star rises in your heart...................bro Frank

 2017/12/16 14:35
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2201


 Re: AOD spoken of four times by Daniel

Many assume the abomination of desolation is spoken of only in Daniel 9:24-27. It's also recorded in Daniel 8:13, 11:31 and 12:11. Considered together it seems there is scant room to believe a literal temple is not included in the overall context. Nor is a symbolic non literal AC/man of sin being spoken of.

Jesus said when you SEE the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet let those in Judea flee for this event will begin tribulation such as never occurred. Jesus could not have been more clear and personally directed believers to the prophet Daniel. It's detrimental to ignore His instructions. The AOD will be the most specific clue of clues of clues that the final crisis of mankind will have begun culminating in Jesus' physical second advent. A church that knows what to look for will recognize the AOD for what it is (the most clear and specific sign Jesus gave) and will not be left in the dark wondering what to look for.


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David Winter

 2017/12/16 20:08Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5616
NC, USA

 Re:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_of_desolation


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Todd

 2017/12/16 22:23Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5616
NC, USA

 Re:

Truly I tell you, **this** generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Mark 13:30 (my emphasis).

There is no indication in the Olivet Discourse that when Jesus says “you” he means anything other than his direct audience who asked him the initial question which initiated the discourse.


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Todd

 2017/12/16 22:30Profile









 Re:

Jesus says in Matthew 24............

"Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) "

Jesus brings clarity to the OT. He says Holy place, this is something different than temple. OT reader could not even begin to imagine that the temple would be torn down and not one stone would be left un-turned, nor could they have imagined that that an idolatrous temple would stand in its place. Yet, none of that means that the ground upon which it stands is still considered to be holy ground. Let us remember that the clue is in this part "whoso readeth, let him understand." .................bro Frank

 2017/12/16 22:45
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2201


 Re:

"Who so readeth let him understand," means the reader can understand that when the abomination of desolation is SEEN which the prophet Daniel spoke of then it can be understood that the end of the age and Christ's second coming is near and will be preceded by a unprecedented time of trouble and distress such as has never occurred nor ever will again. Let the reader understand. With no literal temple then I suppose there is no literal AC/man of sin. Hence, the interpretive mode of over spiritualization of prophecy once again actually ends up blurring the picture.


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David Winter

 2017/12/16 23:23Profile









 Re:

There is a literal anti-christ I believe. Believing the temple is not literal does not preclude believing in a literal anti-christ. Anyone who speaks with absolute assurance in regard to end times is simply deluding himself, there much be a humble approach in regard to this subject. If one disagrees on matters of the end times with another brother and sister they would simply have to agree to disagree...............bro Frank

 2017/12/16 23:31
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2201


 Re:

TMK,

The problem with this type of view I think is that the final time of trouble which Daniel spoke of (Daniel 12:1) and Jesus spoke of (Matt 24:21) is in close proximity of time to the resurrection. Jesus in Matthew 24:21 was making reference to Daniel 12:1 - a time of distress and tribulation such as has never occurred. Then Daniel 12:2, the very next verse, speaks of the resurrection - many that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awaken. The tribulation that ends the age is in close time proximity to the resurrection that signals the end of the age.


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David Winter

 2017/12/16 23:36Profile
docs
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2201


 Re:

I agree appolus. It's a little late and I was thinking I may found a little brusque. So I hear you.

I just have a hard time understanding how a literal AC can walk into each believer if believers are the temple bring referred to. How can a literal AC walk into the new birth and new man in Christ within each of us? That has always been my question on this issue.

Thanks.


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David Winter

 2017/12/16 23:45Profile





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