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JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1438
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Marvin

I believe you make a fair assessment of western Christianity and it’s doubtful most on SI would disagree with it generally speaking. However it’s in the response where we differ...

Thank the point, for example, that you used to illustrate your perspective earlier- that Jesus rebuking the Pharisee’s in Matthew- honestly brother, is that a fair assessment? Firstly, that occurred before the cross and resurrection and to people who were under the law. Secondly, He did it to their face in the moment, not a behind the back- retroactive reaction. I could go on but do not want to come off as contentious with you personally:)

Scripture states that as Jesus is presently so should we be on earth,... and doesn’t it also state He ever liveth to make intercession for the saints?
God, our Father, never asked us to be His attorneys,.... just His witness’s;)

Blessings be upon you dear brother ~


_________________
Fletcher

 2017/12/4 18:23Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Fletcher: Thanks for the gracious response.

I do not believe Jesus would deal any differently today than when he dealt with the Pharisees. I used that example because I consider Jesus attitude toward false and failing religion today the same as yesterday.

I speak boldly here I do agree, please know, I would say the exact same thing the same way if the senior pastor were a regular poster here. I am not a lion in the closet and a mouse in the living room.

No doubt a dozen happy reasons could be given for the circus, it is my contention and my resistance against such mindsets when God has so spoken through many various circumstances, calamities, spiritual falsehoods, and perilous times whereby only the most blinded by the world would not fear God and pay attention to what lay in the future.

These kind of 'big events' are a Churches name-maker in the community. This kind of thing is how a Church introduces itself to the community and the world at large. This is a calling card, a kind of first-impression that is calculated to impress and make Christians an easy-to-accept group where it is safe and good and pleasant to attend this neighboring Church.
I am surely not saying our first impression needs to be a mount shaking and smoking with the presence of God where if you touch it your going to die. But I am saying the message this conveys to a community is at best a bait-and-switch and at worst a blatant lie. Where the former is bringing them in only to change the message and demeanor where they know they were tricked. The later is what happens when the attempt to keep such people is by more and more entertainments and like-kind novelties to ensure "church" is where they ought to be. The lie is they will associate "Christians are cool" with what a genuine Christian biblically should be. This is an utter fabrication designed to remove the stigma of any cross that might be mentioned or the exclusivity of any discipleship that is required and lastly present an antithesis for the repudiation of what they love about themselves, the world and their own self-importance.

Its a wide gate my brother, a bypath, a trip through vanity fair where any and all religions can come and find a place to sell their wares. We are so used to our Churches, pastors and methodologies including a vast usage of Vanity Fair we question the wisdom of leaving that bypath out.


_________________
Marvin

 2017/12/4 19:06Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2071


 Re: Karn Evil 9



The only thing that is missing is the theme song, "Karn Evil 9" by ELP

Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends
We're so glad you could attend
Come inside! Come inside!
There behind a glass is a real blade of grass
be careful as you pass.
Move along! Move along!

Come inside, the show's about to start
guaranteed to blow your head apart
Rest assured you'll get your money's worth
The greatest show in Heaven, Hell or Earth.
You've got to see the show, it's a dynamo.
You've got to see the show, it's rock and roll ...

Right before your eyes we pull laughter from the skies
And he laughs until he cries then he dies then he dies
Come inside the shows about to start
Guaranteed to blow your head apart
You gotta see the show
It's a dynamo
You gotta see the show
It's rock and roll

Soon the Gypsy Queen in a glaze of Vaseline
Will perform on guillotine
What a scene! What a scene!
Next upon the stand will you please extend a hand
to Alexander's Ragtime Band
Dixie land, Dixie land

Roll up! Roll up! Roll up!
See the show!

Performing on a stool we've a sight to make you drool
Seven virgins and a mule
Keep it cool. Keep it cool.

We would like it to be known the exhibits that were shown
were exclusively our own,
All our own. All our own.

Come and see the show! Come and see the show! Come and see the show!

See the show!

___________________

Apostasy before our very eyes!

But the church-goers call it entertainment!

And all the people said...Amen...!


I think this just may be some of that lukewarm fat offering stuff mentioned in The Revelation that makes Jesus regurgitate.

Now go...and enjoy the show!


 2017/12/4 20:54Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1438
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Marvin

Yes again we agree on that and as usual you are very articulate in expressing your perspectives. That in itself is a gifting in my opinion:)
Tho my point might be better put as a question... how does us critiquing their “circus” here on SI help to address the problem that got them there?
How are they, or God for that matter, helped by our critique?
While I have no doubt you are consistent in your faith and would therefore be just as likely to be critical of them in person, what good does it do to do it here?
I want to be clear on a few points tho,...
first I’m not defending their “circus” -
second I’m not taking issue with you personally, rather am questioning the logic of the criticism as it is foreign to me-
third/mainly am defending the much underrated ministry of intercession:)

I believe it was L. Ravenhill who said ,” it’s one thing to go before a dead people on behalf of the living God,...but it’s an entirely different thing to go before the living God on behalf of those dying people “
Honestly dear brother it pains me as well to see our faith made a mockery of,... I get it!!
I guess our response to that pain is different and perhaps so it should be~

Sorry for delayed response but my rear axel broke while driving home and my tire passed me on the road, so it took a while to sort out;)


_________________
Fletcher

 2017/12/4 20:57Profile









 Re:

▪▪▪
Will perform on guillotine
What a scene! What a scene!
▪▪▪

Hmm. Are these the guillotines that await us in the death camps?

Blaine

 2017/12/4 21:00
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
bearmaster....Are these the guillotines that await us in the death camps?

Blaine

Hopefully so, the faster we can all get out of here the better, next stop after the guillotine is forever land, come on death camps, I'm ready for forever, ever land.


_________________
Bill

 2017/12/4 21:11Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Hi Fletcher: Thanks for the kind word, by the way you are a genuine pleasure to correspond with. I must admit brother I laughed out loud at your tire passing you...though I do not envy the bill to fix it.

Your words are not lost on me, I know that speaking what I do is preaching to the choir ( to some of us) and an annoyance for others. I spoke that way to give voice to my mind on the matter, I have been of late very prayerful about our state of affairs and it is not for lack of prayer that I speak this way.

For me when I intercede or when I wrestle with these issues I do not come out quieter or less convicted of God's intention to purify his people, I am more confident of it and I know what God will perfect his saints.

When I come away from prayer I am more determined to rid myself of anything that defiles me or feeds the carnal mind, in such a state of mind, I am convicted and urged in my spirit to speak boldly and confidently that what I must forsake, others must do as well. I am not above anyone and I am tempted and tried like everyone else because I live in the same culture and world they do. It's not as if the Churches Ive attended in the past have not done similar things. The pastors and leaders of the various Churches I've attended all of them have found the wisdom and pleasantries of Vanity Fair useful in attracting new visitors and helpful in gaining their attention. We employed bait and switch...and when they heard me it was not long before various ones made a mad dash out the door not into it. When the pastor(s) realized their efforts and my preaching were contrary to Church growth I was next on the chopping block.
But all of this I expected and it was not because I was off base, it was because my dear Pastors really thought the visitors and new attenders would make the switch from the world to the Church. The unfortunate truth showed otherwise. Later those same pastors knew I was right ( I was not then nor now seeking vindication) they realized Vanity Fair by its very spirit cannot supply the conviction and impetus to take the Church and its message seriously.
They knew that their reliance upon methods and gimmickry was not born of the Spirit, but it was one of experimentation and hopefulness based upon human nature.

My intention to speak so directly is to encourage a well defined belief in the power of God's word and Spirit.
It is not my intention to denigrate pastors here as though this is my own personal 'inquisition room'. However I make no apologies for hating what has been a deterrent to godly men and women and a false-hope placed upon events such as those like a circus. I am not persuaded by the quoting of godly men who I love and read myself as a remedy for what I see as blatant cowardice to confront and deal with the matter of worldly methods that confuse and confound the hope of God's people.

The congregation I attend now can only take me in small doses, the day will come when I will confront their flesh and I will see whether they love me in word of deed. My prayer is they will believe the truth and love Jesus more and not become offended at some small reproof.

Again Fletcher it is a joy to converse with you and I thank God you are Christ's beloved.


_________________
Marvin

 2017/12/4 21:41Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3311
Texas

 Re:

I guess if I had my druthers, I would rather see this kind of Circus going on at 2nd baptist, than the Circus going on at the Benny Hinn crusades. :-)


_________________
Bill

 2017/12/4 21:47Profile









 Re:

▪▪▪
Hopefully so, the faster we can all get out of here the better, next stop after the guillotine is forever land, come on death camps, I'm ready for forever, ever land.
▪▪▪

Mr Bill I am with you on that one bro. Come Lord Jesus and let's go home.

Mr. Bear

 2017/12/4 22:30





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