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Online! | | Old Covenant and New Covenant Prophets by Zac Poonen | | There is a difference between old-covenant prophecy and new-covenant prophecy. Under the old covenant, people would ask the prophets for guidance as to what to do and the prophet would direct them telling them what God had told him to tell them. This was because the people did not have the Holy Spirit to guide them. Only the prophet had the Holy Spirit. But under the new covenant the Lord says, “They shall not teach every man his neighbour, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ but all shall know Me” (Hebrews 8:11). Now that the Holy Spirit can dwell within everyone, there is no need for any prophet to give directive prophecy to any child of God, telling him what to do. If he does that, the prophet would be taking the place of the Holy Spirit and connecting people to himself and not to Christ. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit Who dwells in us jealously desires us (James 4:5). What for? He jealously desires that we should have a direct connection with our Bridegroom and that no man should come between us and Christ. There are many pastors and self-appointed “prophets” nowadays who tell people what to do, where to go, whom to marry, etc. All such people are actually hindering the work of the Holy Spirit, for they give people the impression that God will not speak to them directly. Such prophets are (knowingly or unknowingly) inspired by Satan, for they come between people and the Lord. Always remember that the Holy Spirit jealously desires that you be connected to Christ so intimately, that no-one can come between you and Him.
Many people have asked me to find the will of God for them in some area. I dare not do that because I reverence God. Only one who does not reverence God will dare to take the place of the Holy Spirit in the life of another. I am always ready to give people advice concerning the actions they are considering. I can tell them the advantages and dangers of a particular course of action. But then I will tell them to pray and I assure them that God Himself will tell them through the Holy Spirit, what they should do.
So don’t ever try to find out God’s will for somebody else and thus take the place of God in their lives. It says about the Antichrist that he will sit “in the temple of God displaying himself as being God” (2 Thessalonians 2:4). There are false prophets today who have this spirit of the antichrist who are sitting in the church (God’s temple), taking the place of God – and telling people what God’s will for their lives is. Yet another proof that these self-appointed “prophets” are false prophets is that almost all of them expect money from people after they have prophesied to them – exactly like a doctor who collects his consultation fees!! Those who go to such prophets never grow in the Lord because they lose their direct connection with the Holy Spirit. The next time they want to know God’s will, they will have to go to the prophet again. The Holy Spirit wants to show you the will of God Himself – and not through someone else.
What did Agabus, a true prophet, do here? (Acts 11:27-30) He said that there would be a famine. He did not say that therefore they should take an offering for the poor saints and send it to them. No. Because He knew that in the new covenant, no-one is supposed to tell another child of God what he should do. He knew where to stop, unlike the false prophets. A true prophet will speak forth what God has revealed to him about the future – and then stop. The believers in Antioch then sought God and the Holy Spirit Himself told them what to do. They collected some money and sent it to the poor saints. Directive prophecy is an Old Testament feature because people didn’t have the Holy Spirit in those days. It is never found in the New Testament.
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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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|  2017/11/17 13:50 | Profile | Gloryandgrace
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| | Re: Old Covenant and New Covenant Prophets by Zac Poonen | |
I've listened to Zac Poonen many times and I find his sermons edifying and instructive.
I believe Brother Poonen missed it on this one.
Not that what is said here is ALL wrong, just pieces of it do not add up to all the biblical truth the Spirit of God by Zac's his own words teaches us.
New Testament prophets can give directive words, according to Zac his argument is from silence which makes it without substance. There are self-appointed prophets who will take your money that is a fact. But the same could be said for Pastors as well. So, in clubbing this office of Prophet he clubbed the Pastor as well.
When any man of God speaks from the pulpit declaring the word of God, there are directives given in the word and that directive from the mouth of the pastor is not now a "non-directive" or he becomes false? No, I don't see any text that would substantiate that.
This little article reads like a personal disapproval of personal prophecy gone malignant...and now completely overstating the case.
I've listened to Zac preach and he's no coward and he is surely no soft-peddler of truth. In his own preaching, you find directive, imperative, commands, warnings and comforts...all within the confines of gospel ministry and biblical proclamation. The prophet may do this just as well and especially because of his prophetic office.
Directive prophecy is latent in the body of Christ for the very reasons above, Men like Zac wouldn't accept it and because he's in a position to quench the Spirit of God at this point, there is now a choke-point for any utterance that would be directive.
Telling a congregation to repent...is a directive not a suggestion. Telling the congregation Jesus is going to return and judge all men therefore you must be ready and waiting for his return...what do you think? Directive or suggestion? If its a directive its a command to be obeyed, if its a suggestion then those who do not trim their lamps should not be shut out anymoreso than those who did...because there was no command to do so.
You see how silly this gets on a pastoral level let alone relegate anyone claiming to be a prophet is false if he does so.
I hope when you read sermons like this from Zac or anyone else you put them under the same scrutiny they are fond to use.
When the pulpit is all suggestion which Zac is NOT, and when the pulpit is a soft-peddle which Zac is NOT and when the pulpit is not firmly grounded in scripture which Zac IS, you find a pulpit that cannot issue command, directive or warning because it has lost its understanding and belief in the authority of the Word of God. By this same token, that kind of pulpit cannot issue comfort, easy, safety, relief, forgiveness, joy and gladness because to undermine the one is to undermine them both. Zac does not do this kind of thing.
So to me, this sermon is contradictory to how he ministers himself and how he expresses gospel truth with clarity and authority.
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Marvin
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| | 2017/11/17 20:29 | Profile | Martyr
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| | Re: | | I think there is so much debate about prophets and their role in the church because there are simply so few. All we have are teachers or men who warn of coming judgement and consider themselves prophets for doing so (which is silly because it plainly says that in the bible, no gift of prophecy needed).
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Tyler
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| | 2017/11/17 22:26 | Profile | docs
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| | Re: | | No gift of prophecy needed? Where does the Bible say that?
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David Winter
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| | 2017/11/18 1:19 | Profile | Theophila
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| | Re: | | I could be wrong but I think Martyr meant 'no gift of prophecy needed to proclaim coming judgment, not 'no gift of prophecy needed these days'...
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Tolu
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| | 2017/11/18 1:58 | Profile | Theophila
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| | Re: | | Woah, brother,
It seems to me you have broadened what bro. Zac very narrowly defined as 'directive prophecy', thereby misunderstanding his message.
He clearly explains that no New Testament prophet should give personal prophecies that tell folks what life decisions to make about issues not specifically laid out in Scripture e.g. who to marry, what job offers to take, what city to live in etc.
To support his position, he gives the example of Agabus, who gave a prophecy but did not tell the brethren what to do about it. Rather he left the matter to the Holy Spirit to enlighten his hearers.
Our modern charismanic fetish with personal prophecy sounds much like the ancient Israelites who would rather Moses speak to the Lord and tell them instead of them hearing directly from the Lord Himself.
I'm firmly withe Bro. Zac on this one.
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Tolu
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| | 2017/11/18 2:14 | Profile | Martyr
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| | Re: | | Theophilia that is right, i didnt mean we dont need the gift of prophecy, just that to know judgement is coming does not require it. Sorry guys, i should have been more specific
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Tyler
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| | 2017/11/18 15:12 | Profile | Martyr
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| | Re: | | I understand his point. Im saying it is wrong. A prophet speaks the word of God, why wouldnt this be pointed and directed towards an individual. Again, we do not ubderstand the role because it is not in the church
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Tyler
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| | 2017/11/18 15:19 | Profile | Gloryandgrace
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Snoqualmie, WA
| | Re: | | Hi Tolu: I didn't read where such specifics serving as directive prophecy were mentioned by Zac, only that in general he felt those who prophecied with any directives were false.
The Agabus text is an argument from silence and has other alternative biblical conclusions than what was cited by Brother Zac.
I do agree that personal prophecies for some serve as a kind of fortune telling. Those believers are errant in seeking such prophecies generally speaking.
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Marvin
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| | 2017/11/19 1:52 | Profile |
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