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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5635
NC, USA

 Re:

Very true Tim. I’ll be honest and say they choke me a tad- however I can only trust that “the judge off all the earth will do right.”


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Todd

 2017/11/13 18:55Profile
Gloryandgrace
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Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:


Hi Tim and Todd:

Cynicism is the defense mechanism, otherwise belief is not just reasonable its necessary. But to ignore and suppress truth cynicism is a quick go-to in order to escape any pinched conscience.

The rational and obvious response to hearing "I may be next to die" is "how can I get right with God, will he accept me, forgive me...at least help me?"
But rational responses are totally unsafe because rationality is a faculty of man designed to lead man to God. Intuitively the sinful man knows this, so in order to continue in his skepticism, cynicism, atheism, agnosticism, humanism, narcissism...you name your ism rationality is no friend to his sinful nature. The best thing to do is to stonewall and that is why the emotional and the irrational are safe because they internally disconnect from reality, from rationality...and especially from a convicting word.
Cognitive dissonance is a close friend in case of truth, evidence and conviction dropped in the sinners lap without preparation to argue against it.

The more the Christian presses the sinner the more obvious it becomes to both sinner and Christian their complaint against God is suppression of truth coupled with unbelief masked with intellectual sounding questions and retorts based solely upon their enemy-mindset looking for even more escape routes...and hoping you dear Christian will provide another.

My point is I never let them off the hook, I never let them try to step over the cross, I set before them a stumbling block. Not because I am clever but because to faithfully proclaim the message of truth the cross is built-in to it. They stumble because God made it necessary for sinful man to stumble, he must choke on it, he must fall and be broken. That is part of what it means to introduce Jesus to them.
They want to play word games and duel with me over philosophical issues then defend myself because of Christian failures or supposed God failures and finally if they can, get me to believe they have some kind of superior view by way of science, philosophy, and evolution. All of these are marshaled against the Christian when they propose their God failures. Their axioms go flyin and their truisms are thrown like a fast-ball...but they don't realize Jesus in me provides a shield of faith and is able to quench fiery darts of Satan let alone irrationality masquerading as logic and good morals.

If they stumble at the word, that word is God doing his work perfectly. If they are pleased, placated with a philosophy that lets them off the hook, you get to have the appearance of helping them but have denied the power of the cross and shunned the work of the Holy Spirit.

Their stumbling is a good thing.


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Marvin

 2017/11/13 19:13Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1450
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: TX Shooting Scripture

Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

Think about what all was and had happened when David penned these words...


And Paul here; For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

And John here; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
19 ¶ And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

In light of these and other passages and the experiences of the apostles, shouldn’t we as Peter says; Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17 ¶ For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

Maybe we’re looking at this all wrong?




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Fletcher

 2017/11/13 19:26Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Hi Fletcher:

I don't think Im looking at this issue wrongly because I am discussing another slant that unbelievers take when questioning the Christian about God's lack of concern for the death of his own.

Your text is a fine example of showing the division the Lord makes upon the His return as well as those who die in Christ and those who die outside of Christ.
Those who suffer for Christ and those who suffer while being an enemy of God.

No matter which way you turn, the cross and the stumbling block are present to cause the fall of men.

It's important to know that all scripture is subject to argumentation, striving, disagreement. Every scripture pushes the sinner back and the rebellious response is to push the question in another direction...
How could you believe a God that was not faithful to your loved ones and let them die?
How could you believe in a God that allows the killing of children, teens who did no wrong?
Why would anyone think there is consolation in a myth-book with a non-existent God?

This an a hundred more retorts can be given against any text presented. But the issue is not to find the 'exact' text that somehow quenches all questions, my response is to put the sinner on trial, its he that must defend himself when the God who judges all men hears and sees everything used by sinful men to hide themselves from truth.
Jesus words are true, "If you do not believe that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" Their complaints and arguments only distract from the reality of their own peril.

It is a secret thing of God to know why those people, why those children, why that Church. It is revealed in scripture what we should do when we see calamity, death, injustice...
"for unless ye repent for ye shall likewise perish".
Jesus turned the question back on them, that is what I attempt to do as well.


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Marvin

 2017/11/13 20:27Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1450
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Brother Marvin,

That was not meant as an affront to you or any contributors, rather I was hoping to show a different way of responding, especially to a “critic” by revealing that this is not our home and we look to another, better inheritance than this. As such, if while walking in obedience to God, we should die (no matter how gruesome) then that is a day of rejoicing for we have graduated, released from the prison of this mortal coil with its fallen tendencies and moved on to our everlasting treasure, namely the eternal presence of God without distractions:)

We know from the scriptures (Job, 1 John, etc...) that if we are walking in obedience to God then the enemy cannot touch us without permission from the Father, so if something “bad” befalls us then the Lord allowed it. While He Himself doesn’t personally take part in the “bad” regarding His children, He nonetheless allows it... (or so my understanding goes).

For some there’s a choice,... a “garden of gethsemane” moment of ultimate surrender or like Stephen who was so honored in the mist of such a horrific act,.. and oh how God was glorified:)))

Ours is not to appease the critic but to glorify God and let them see it, especially amidst tragedy’s shadow, responding not to them or the situations, but to Him that all may see that Christ is risen and alive in us and then let Holy Spirit bring conviction and do what only He can do:)





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Fletcher

 2017/11/13 21:19Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re:

Hi Fletcher: No affront was taken, sorry if my post gave that impression.

The post was well said, we are on the same page.

I especially like... "Ours is not to appease the critic but to glorify God and let them see it, especially amidst tragedy’s shadow, responding not to them or the situations, but to Him that all may see that Christ is risen and alive in us and then let Holy Spirit bring conviction and do what only He can do:)"

I wish I'd said that.


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Marvin

 2017/11/13 22:16Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

AMEN


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D.Miller

 2017/11/14 0:10Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5635
NC, USA

 Re:

Yes amen


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Todd

 2017/11/14 7:09Profile





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