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TakeUptheCross
Member



Joined: 2016/8/10
Posts: 242
Germany

 Question about healing

I have a sincere question about healing. I was speaking today with some believers from the church. And there is one sister (who was also there) who is very, chronically ill. So as we were talking to each other one sister said: "You have to believe that God will heal." And I said: "Yes!" But my face perhaps somewhat disturbed her and she asked: "Esther, don't you believe?" And from there started the discussion.

I do believe God can heal and that He HEALS! There have been testimonies in the church in my own home - my parents (both of them), my brother has many times been saved from near death (and even the doctors have been amazed that he lives). So I do believe that God heals.

But in this situation (of this sister) - I cannot somehow say "I do believe God will heal her." I pray God gives her long life and strength for her children. And I don't want to use phrases and affirmations to make myself believe (as if it were magical words). I'm a med student and perhaps that influences my way of thinking. Please understand, I do not want to destroy the faith of anybody about this! And I do not want either to "play Christian", as if I have heard from God and have the assurance about healing.... (Edit: healing in that particular case)

Am I thinking wrong?

 2017/10/12 15:41Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5586
NC, USA

 Re: Question about healing

Everyone dies. The issue is whether it's a "premature" death.


_________________
Todd

 2017/10/12 15:55Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 801


 Re:

I would take the attitude of David, whose first son with Bathsheba was sick. He pleaded and fasted and prayed to the Lord, but when the Lord did not heal, he picked himself up and ate.

The goal of every trial is that we depend on the Lord and trust him. If the sufferer takes the attitude that God will not or cannot heal them, then they are bitter until death or until they come to terms with it. If they believe that God WILL definitely heal them and He does not, then at the point in which they finally realize that their healing is not coming, they are bitter at the end--as well as everyone else who had to watch it. But if we say, "I know that God can deliver me from this and heal, but if not, I will still love and trust Him", then there is peace and trust throughout, even in the midst of hardship. We need to encourage one another with the truth. God healed Hezekiah, but he did not live forever. Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, but he did not live forever. Daniel was delivered from the Lion's den, but he too died. But I guarantee you this: not one of those men regrets it now, because what they knew by faith, they see with their own eyes, and they wouldn't trade a thousand more lifetimes for what they behold now.

 2017/10/12 17:54Profile
Gloryandgrace
Member



Joined: 2017/7/14
Posts: 1162
Snoqualmie, WA

 Re: Question about healing


Esther: Some things to consider .
1. You can ask God to give you the gift of healing
2. You can ask God to heal your sister in his providence.
3. You can ask God to use men to help your sister recover.
4. You can love your sister and be there for her in her suffering, whether she suffers or she is delivered Jesus Is Lord in any and every situation regardless of our bodily condition. (bravely spoken by me who is not suffering at this moment)

Esther: when we address healing from Christianity 101 we guess at God's will, we quote some scriptures we are encouraged to use, we hope God isn't mad at us so that our prayers are heard, we relegate all this to his providence and cop out behind sovereignty and pretend suffering is the only answer available outside of doctors.
When we address healing from Christianity 201, we stand firm on the promises, we intercede, we resist the enemy and stand in the gap for our friends and relatives. For some, they are certain there is not gifting and there is no miracle coming from their hands so they count on the intellect and ability of men ( in God's providence)
Christianity 301, is a listening, promise believing spirit. They count on God to answer their prayers, but they do not pretend to know the will of God for all who need healing, they expect God to speak to them, they expect God to witness to their spirit about whether to pray, intercede, lay hands on or decline from asking for healing and pray for something other that the Spirit of God prompts them to pray for.
Christianity 401, Their lives are directed of the Lord in a living way every moment and in every circumstance, their purpose and prayers are revealed to them at the time, they wait on God, seek the Lord for the miraculous, they expect the miraculous just as they would for the sun to rise in the morning. For them, divine agency has placed them there to minister according to their gifting and their abilities. Healing or no healing, deliverance or no deliverance, all is the same. Not because they are indifferent or uncaring but because the Spirit of God leading them to glorify God in every and all situations is foremost. They are the most confident in prayers being answers, healings and deliverances...and equally when some must suffer, be disciplined, be corrected, or helped and loved. For them all is God's business in and through them.

Now, do not pretend you will jump to 401 cause you want to. Truth is, we go through stages of maturity, stages of sacrifice and surrender, stages where we begin to learn of Jesus by Jesus from Jesus and its the norm to be in a constant fellowship and in-touch with providential leadings.
With what faith you possess and with what confidence in Jesus you have honor God with those and you will be pleasing to the Lord no matter what outcome. God is very in-tune with your sister and knows her situation perfectly. It takes us time to understand this knowledge of God and have confidence in him over against our weakness and inability.

Grow my sister, let it happen and do not worry about some "stage" I used to describe our growth, the main thing is abide in him and he will abide in you. Ask and God will answer.


_________________
Marvin

 2017/10/12 20:02Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3556
Louisiana

 Re: Question about healing

Sister,

Anyone who is in need of healing must know that healing was provided for in the Atonement and is the will of God.

How can we pray in faith if we are doubting that God is willing to heal us? Our faith is in the promises in the Word of God, and in Jesus Christ the healer.

Below is a short teaching by Derek Prince:
"Jesus was wounded that we might be healed."


http://www.derekprince.org/Media/Player.aspx?media_id=1000024298&file_id=

Jesus was Wounded that We might be Healed

soundNow, in the same two verses we get the physical aspect of the exchange which is just as clear. Going back to verse 4:

"Surely he has borne our sicknesses and carried our pains. [And then verse 5:] He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement [or punishment] that brought us peace was upon him; and by his stripes [or wounds] we are healed."

Notice how logical it is? He took our sicknesses, he bore our pains and by his wounds we are healed. The Hebrew there for “we are healed” is rather difficult to render in English but I’ll say it this way: It was healed for us. That’s the nearest I can get. So you can say healing was obtained for us. Why? Because he took our sicknesses and bore our pains. Therefore, healing was obtained for us.

To make it short and simple we will say he was wounded that we might be what? Healed. That’s very simple, isn’t it? But very important. It concerns a lot of us here at this present time. He was wounded that we might be healed.

Before we do that I want to emphasize that the New Testament totally endorses this interpretation because this passage of Isaiah is quoted twice in Matthew 8 and in 1 Peter 2. In each case it was a Jew quoting it who understood Hebrew and in each case he was inspired by the Holy Spirit. So we have a totally reliable and authoritative interpretation.

Keep your finger in Isaiah 53 in case we need to go back there and turn to Matthew 8:16–17. Now this is the opening of the public ministry of Jesus. This is the first time he began to minister in public. It says when evening had come, because it was a Sabbath, and the Jews were not allowed to travel or to carry anything on the Sabbath. So they had to wait until the Sabbath was over to come to him and bring their sick.

“When evening had come, they brought to him many who were demon possessed; and he cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick.”

Notice how many he healed? [Congregation said all.] Are you sure of that? What did it say? [All.] Did it, really? Now, why did he do that? The next verse tells you.

“That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet saying, He himself took our infirmities and bore our sicknesses.”

What is he quoting? Isaiah 53:4. And notice that he uses two words for physical problems. Infirmities and sicknesses. If you were to distinguish between them I would say infirmities would be weaknesses, things that you’re liable to, like allergies, and sicknesses would be actual diseases like cholera or diphtheria or influenza, whatever it might be.

But, you see, Matthew says that the healing ministry of Jesus was the fulfillment of Isaiah 53:4–5. And he emphasizes that he healed every one. Why did he heal every one? Because he had taken or was going to take—but in the eternal counsel of God he had already taken—our sicknesses and borne our pains. You know that’s good news! I don’t see how people can hear that and believe it without getting excited. Maybe it will take a little while to sink in but it’s not only good news, it’s exciting news.
You see, if the church really believed that, evangelism would be pretty simple. Like suppose I suffer from corns which, thank God I don’t. Suppose I did. And I discovered a remedy that completely dispelled corns. I mean, I just forgot I ever had a corn. I see this poor dear old lady hobbling around with corns. You know, it would be almost inevitable that I would say, “Madam, do you know that there’s a remedy for corns? You don’t have to have those corns.” I wouldn’t have to be an evangelist. I’d just have to be a normal person. Isn’t that right? If we, not somebody else but we, [that includes me] if we were totally convinced of what I’m teaching we would evangelize.

Going to Pakistan was a revealing experience for me because it’s 98 percent Moslem country. And we got as many as 16,000 people out to meetings without much advertising. Why? Because we prayed for the sick. And they got healed. They got healed. Not all of them, only a few of them, but they really got healed. The blind saw, the deaf heard, the lame walked. Believe me, brothers and sisters, you don’t have a problem getting a crowd if you have that. There are plenty of other fine ways to attract people but the number one central method of the New Testament is miracles. And practically speaking, they cost nothing—in the natural. In the spiritual they cost a lot.

Let’s go on to 1 Peter 2:24. Oh, I want you to notice before you do, Matthew 8:17, notice the quotation in the version that I’m reading:

“He himself . . .”

Notice all the emphasis? Where is it? On he, that’s right. And then we’ll go to 1 Peter 2:24. This is speaking about Jesus. It’s one of these long sentences that the New Testament writers indulge in. Beginning at verse 23:

"Who, when he was reviled, did not revile in return; when he suffered he did not threaten; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously. Who himself bore our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, having died to sin, might live for righteousness: by whose stripes [or wounds] you were healed."

Notice that? See, that’s both aspects. The spiritual, he bore our sins in his own body on the tree that we might be forgiven and he took our sicknesses and bore our pains that we might be healed. I tell you, brothers and sisters, some of you are responding and some of you are not. That’s not my problem. But you may need to renounce unbelief at some time. I know it’s not easy to believe. Believe me, I struggled in a hospital bed for months to the point where I really believed it. It’s a strange thing. The critics of Jesus in his day never questioned that he could heal the sick. They did deny his claim to forgive sins. The church today, the evangelical church takes it for granted that people’s sins can be forgiven but stumbles over the fact that people can be healed. Which is harder? To forgive sins or to heal sickness? Which is the greater miracle? That our sins can be forgiven. There’s no miracle that transcends that.

You’ll find in previous centuries tremendously intelligent and dedicated and earnest men like John Wesley struggled for years to apprehend by faith the fact that their sins could be forgiven. Because today it is pretty generally taught, people take it for granted. They walk up and take it like helping themselves to a pill over the counter. It’s comical.

In John Wesley’s ministry in Cornwall, which is the extreme southwest county of England, there was a man, just a humble man who said that he knew his sins were forgiven. You know what they called him? A blasphemer. They press-ganged him into the British Navy to deal with him. See? Really it’s a subjective issue. It’s our attitude that determines how we’ll respond.


Again, I want you to notice in verse 24 of 1 Peter 2 who what? Himself. Do you see that? All through the emphasis is on him. Brothers and sisters, there is no solution in ourselves. You can go on quoting doctors about your sickness as long as you please and feeling yourself here and there and everywhere else. But it’s not the solution.

I am always amused at people who tell me they can’t memorize scripture. “Brother Prince, I just can’t memorize scripture.” But the same lady goes to the doctor, comes back and tells you verbatim everything the doctor said about her sickness. She memorizes what she believes.

Did we do this one on both hands? I don’t think we did. Now this time I’m to expect you to do it with me just by intuition. It’s the physical. He was wounded that we might be healed. He was wounded that we might be healed. Now I. He was wounded that I might be healed. Put your hand up in the air and say it. That’s you. Amen! Tell me, how much work did you have to put into getting your sins forgiven? None. How much work do you have to put into getting healed? None. It’s finished.

I have studied Greek since I was ten years old. The word that’s used in 1 Peter 2:24, you were healed, is the normal Greek word for physical healing. And again, like the Hebrew words, it’s not changed its meaning. It still has the same meaning in modern Greek. From it comes the modern Greek word for a doctor, "iatros".

Christians sometimes say to me, “Brother Prince, how can I know if it’s God’s will to heal me?” And I usually answer something like this—and mind you, there’s lots of things I don’t know and lots of questions I can’t answer. It doesn’t embarrass me the least bit. But I say, “If I rightly understand the revelation of scripture, you’re asking the wrong question. It’s not how can I know if it’s God’s will to heal me, it’s how can I appropriate the healing which God has already provided for me.”



You find that healing is never in the future tense when it refers to the atonement. Seven hundred years before it happened Isaiah said healing was obtained for us. And fifty years or so afterwards Peter said by whose wounds you were healed. It’s very emphatic. A simple past tense. It happened on the cross. It’s a fact of history. Whether we believe it or not it’s true. What we believe will affect us. We can’t change the facts of history, they’re already stated.


_________________
Mike

 2017/10/12 20:05Profile
TakeUptheCross
Member



Joined: 2016/8/10
Posts: 242
Germany

 Re:

Todd: What is premature death? As I currently understand it, it is when somebody dies, before the time God wanted him to die. I mean, there are people who die early because of their witness for Christ. (Although this is not the case here).

havok20x and Gloryandgrace: There is something both of you say. In the end, my faith in God does not depend on a healing (or any other kind of blessing) - and I totally agree with that. How does it go in the marriage vow - "for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death do us part". I think it is like that in our relationship with Christ, but death does not part us :)

AbideinHim:

Quote:
"How much work do you have to put into getting healed? None. It’s finished."

The theological side of the statement, I do understand - but from a pratical viewpoint, I believe it is wrong. If there is an incident, for example - a hands of a worker get stucked in a machine, a heart attack or whatever - you automatically bring that man asap to a hospital. Now, there may be cases when there was NO such possibility in some desert or something, when people in such occassions prayed and God answered. But I would say that in Western society - not bringing that man to the hospital would be to tempt God.

Again, please understand, I do not argue that God heals. For me when I say "I believe, he/she will get healed." - it means it will really be so 100%. But will I not be like a false prophet when I say: "This person will get healed." and in the end he/she does not?! When Jesus said: "the devil is gone out of thy daughter." (Mark 7:29) - it was so; "Go thy way; thy son liveth." - and it was so (John 4:50)

I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

 2017/10/13 14:00Profile









 only death can end the pain....

I'm always watching documentaries of people who have severe situation that they will live their entire life in pain and only death can end their pain.... And they joyfully accepted their situation...

How about these kind of people who will never be heal? Does God loves them?

 2017/10/13 14:56





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