SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Baptism with the Holy Spirit

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 Next Page )
PosterThread
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 745
Australia

 Re: Mike


Mike,

I think we have to go back to basics.

What is "baptism"?



It is almost midnight here. Write again tomorrow,



_________________
Jade

 2017/7/28 9:35Profile
followthelamb
Member



Joined: 2010/12/7
Posts: 1291
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Hi Jade,

I believe that every believer in Jesus Christ has the Holy Spirit indwelling them already, but that the baptism of the Holy Spirit often occurs sometimes quite a while after conversion.

In John 20:22,23 (and before the outpouring of the Spirit at Pentecost) "...He breathed on them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.'"

So it seems they received the deposit of the Holy Spirit in them but the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon them in power and fulness as in the book of Acts (which is similar to the way the Spirit came upon Ezekiel, speaking to him, lifting him up and carrying him places like Philip after baptizing the Ethiopian in water in Acts etc etc)

I don't have a neat, clear explanation for how it all fits together, but it is clear that saints throughout church history, and long before the charismatic movement, have testified to a second experience (and more fillings) apart from believing and being baptized in water.





 2017/7/28 9:36Profile
followthelamb
Member



Joined: 2010/12/7
Posts: 1291
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

For anyone interested, wanted to share 2 books that are greatly encouraging and very balanced regarding the importance of the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a subsequent experience/blessing to be sought after conversion...


The Spirit of Christ by Andrew Murray


Joy Unspeakable: The Baptism and Gifts of the Holy Spirit by D. Martyn Lloyd Jones

 2017/7/28 9:38Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3567
Louisiana

 Re:

I believe that every believer in Jesus Christ has the Holy Spirit indwelling them already, but that the baptism of the Holy Spirit often occurs sometimes quite a while after conversion.

In John 20:22,23 (and before the outpouring of the Spirit at Pentecost) "...He breathed on them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.'"

Amen! The Holy Spirit came into them
(Salvation), but had not yet come upon
them. (Baptism of Holy Spirit).


_________________
Mike

 2017/7/28 9:44Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 745
Australia

 Re: FollowtheLamb, Mike


Were the disciples born again and were they indwelt by the Holy Spirit in John 20:22,23?


Write again tomorrow.







_________________
Jade

 2017/7/28 10:16Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

I believe one of the big mistakes in our thinking is that the Baptism or filling of the Holy Spirit is a one time event and that once you have had that experience, 'you've got it'.
Scripture seems to indicate this is not so.

Acts 2:3-4
"Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them.
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

Then later.....

Acts 4:8
"Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel:"

The again later...
Acts 4:31
"And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness."

Eph 5:18
"And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,"

To follow up on Jade's point, baptism means to be 'immersed in' / 'overwhelmed by' or 'filled'. When we are Baptised into Christ, we are in Him and He is in us. So baptism means not just 'coming on us', but also us fully 'immersed in'. Therefore Baptism and filled are the same thing.

Being baptised in the spirit or filled with the spirit is different to being indwelt with the spirit which happens at conversion to regenerate us and makes us alive in Christ.

This mistake of thinking that folk that get an initial 'baptism in the spirit, 'have now got it' is where I think a lot of the error and false gifts comes from. Even if someone experiences a true filling and exercising of a gift like tongues or prophecy at one time, because they think they now have it, often what follows is the flesh copying that experience.

This is my experience of over 30 years of involvement with Charismatic and Pentecostal churches. I do believe in the continuance of the gifts and have exercised many of the gifts like tongues, prophecy, etc. However I very seldom speak in tongues now days because there is no need or benefit to anyone for this and I am not going to do this in the flesh. I have seen more flesh at work in the area of gifts in the church than true operation of the gifts and I agree with Zac Poonen that 95% of what people are claiming are the gifts of the spirit are not at all.

I have also seen more spiritual maturity and fruit in non- Charismatic churches than those who claim to have the fullness! How can we say they don't have the Holy spirit or that they are not full of the spirit?
If we are honest, those of us who have been around the Charismatic and Pentecostal movements for some years know this is true.


_________________
Dave

 2017/7/28 10:46Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5610
NC, USA

 Re:

//I have also seen more spiritual maturity and fruit in non- Charismatic churches than those who claim to have the fullness! How can we say they don't have the Holy spirit or that they are not full of the spirit?
If we are honest, those of us who have been around the Charismatic and Pentecostal movements for some years know this is true.//

This has been true in my experience as well- granted I haven't visited every "charismatic" fellowship so it is somewhat of a generalization.

ADD: if I had my druthers, I'd worship with charismatics and hear preaching from and study scripture with baptists. This is also something of a generalization but perhaps you catch my drift.


_________________
Todd

 2017/7/28 11:06Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1770


 Re:

Quote:

This mistake of thinking that folk that get an initial 'baptism in the spirit, 'have now got it' is where I think a lot of the error and false gifts comes from. Even if someone experiences a true filling and exercising of a gift like tongues or prophecy at one time, because they think they now have it, often what follows is the flesh copying that experience.




I agree with you completely. I believe I have experienced the baptism of Holy Spirit. But I still need to be filled with the Holy Spirit every day. Else I can find my Christian life dry as well.

But I believe the gifts can remain even if the person who once got baptized in the holy spirit is not continuously filled. That is why you see those in Matt 7 who hold on to gifts but lose the anointing are caste away. I do not believe they are unbelievers. They were people with genuine gifts, but did not seek to be filled everyday.

we should never evaluate a christian by his gifts. That is why Jesus said by their fruit you know them. If we seek to evaluate by gift rather than fruit, then we are bound to be deceived.


_________________
Sreeram

 2017/7/28 12:13Profile









 Re: The Case of Apollis

FTL wrote...

•••I don't have a neat, clear explanation for how it all fits together, but it is clear that saints throughout church history, and long before the charismatic movement, have testified to a second experience (and more fillings) apart from believing and being baptized in water.•••

This was the case with Apollos.  I posted below in the other thread,

•••••••

Brother Mike writes...

•••The question is this. Do we receive all there is at salvation or is there a deeper experience that God has for us? •••

I believe the scripture passage below answers the question that Mike poses.

Acts 18:24-28

••• Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures. This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John; and he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately. And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace, for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ.•••

Apollo's had a basic knowledge about Jesus. But he needed to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit to go deeper in Jesus and have a more effective ministry. 

Our walk with Christ should always be wanting to go deeper with Jesus and seek more intimacy with him. Also to seek more of his power through continually being filled with the Holy Spirit.

•••••••

The case with Apollos demonstrates that what we call the baptism of the Holy Spirit is in second experience after salvation.  This may not be normative for all believers. But clearly, one can receive a baptism or a greater experience of God's spirit. This might be after a certain amount of time having receivied Christ as Savior.

Simply my thoughts.

Bro Blaine 

 2017/7/28 12:37
TakeUptheCross
Member



Joined: 2016/8/10
Posts: 242
Germany

 Re:

Quote:
Were the disciples born again and were they indwelt by the Holy Spirit in John 20:22,23?



I believe they were saved, because Jesus says:

"He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all." (meaning Judas Iscariot)

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." (John 14:16,17)

He dwells with you and SHALL BE in you (speaking of a future event).

Another example, I think, is the conversion of the Ethiopian. God took Phillip right after the water baptism - "And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Phillip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing." (Acts 8:39)

Why did not God allow Phillip to lay on hands and pray for him, so that he may receive the Holy Ghost? I do not know. But I know, that this eunuch, right there was saved - became a child of God.

And in Romans it is said that "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Romans 8:9) Meaning that if anybody is in Christ, he has the Spirit of God. But that is different from baptism in the Holy Spirit.

 2017/7/28 18:00Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy