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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Are those who believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit unsaved and in a cult?

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proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

I am no fan of Macarthur, But lets be honest and not use little edited snippets to make it seem like he is saying something different than that of what he has clarified in the past.


"The Strange Fire conference will boldly and thoroughly deal with prosperity preachers, faith healers, and many of the other familiar charismatic aberrations and blasphemies of the Holy Spirit.

At the same time, John MacArthur knows there are those in charismatic and Pentecostal churches who love Christ, serve His people, and—like John—are disturbed by the sinful excesses they see dominating the charismatic movement. In the following video, John has a heartfelt message for those folks."

https://www.gty.org/library/blog/B130520/john-macarthurs-encouragement-to-faithful-pentecostals



 2017/7/11 10:20Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1908


 Re:

Quote:

The enemy clearly saw the pentecostal movement as the greatest threat to his kingdom in the last 100 years and came against it with a fury from every angle.



Very true. Only reason there are lot of fake manifestation of the works of Holy Spirit in Christendom today is because the real manifestation is so powerful and worthy. No one fakes a penny but they fake $100 bill because it is very valuable. Same way the real Pentecostal experience is very valuable.

Quote:

He may have been the last great voice on the subject.



No not at all. There is still a man alive called Zac Poonen. I have heard that he was once invited to speak in a big Pentecostal conference in INdia. He was supposed to speak for 3 days or something. But after the 1st session, they changed the speaker and did not even give him a sendoff from that place. He had to find his own means to come back from the conference! Anyone can guess what he has spoken to offend them so much! Zac was even called Devil and persecuted by Pentecostals for his teachings.

I know a very Godly man in India who spoke in a meeting among Pentecostal pastors. He told them that the Holy Spirit is dove and when he comes upon you, you may receive gifts like speaking in tongues. But that gift is like the bird dung. People who hold only to tongues but ignore the holiness that the Holy Spirit should bring are those from whom the bird has already flew but the dung alone is on them!

God still has many prophets who speak against the fake manifestation of Holy Spirit in the charismatic movement.


_________________
Sreeram

 2017/7/11 10:37Profile









 Re:

Hi PP. that was a good video and if this was the standard then that would be good. Lets consider this. If John believes that there are good Pentecostals and that these people are Christians, then what does he think about the sign gifts of the Spirit? If he does not believe they are for now then he is denying the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. If He does believe in them then why are they not acknowledged and practiced in his own church. I am sorry, but he simply cannot have it both ways. He himself spoke about sound doctrine. If he is wrong about the sign gifts, and he is, then he is operating in gross error would you not agree? In any other walk of life, would we follow someone who is operating in gross error?

Now why is it gross error? Because God has shown us how we must operate in the Body, and by denying this and ripping page after page of the Scriptures, you are taking away from the Word. What matter would it be if you were profoundly following two thirds of the Word but denying a third? ...........bro Frank

 2017/7/11 10:41









 Re:

Well Sree, I am glad to hear that. I too have heard from saints all over the world, pentecostal saints, who mourn and weep because of counterfeit Christianity. Not sure I like the "dung," analogy," as only good things come from the Father. I do agree with holiness and how important it is to live an exemplary life that bears witness to the truth that we hold.........bro Frank

 2017/7/11 11:06
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1908


 Re:

Quote:

Not sure I like the "dung," analogy," as only good things come from the Father.


Ha ha. He said that to provoke them to anger. In Pentecostals today speaking in tongues is the only thing that is important in Christianity. Hence the speaker compared tongues to dung. Basically he was saying tongues are result of Holy Spirit coming upon you. But the proof of Holy SPirit residing in you should be Holy Life.


_________________
Sreeram

 2017/7/11 11:12Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Bro Frank,

I hear what you are saying.

But there are many Preachers represented on SI that lean/ed cessationist ?
From my understanding most of what we have of recorded church history seem's that they did not practice the gift signs as we read about in the Scriptures ?

We do not throw all of them such as Spurgeon under the bus because of such views.

I was just pointing out that MacArthur has clarified that he is not throwing all continuist under the bus.

I am not a fan of MacArthur and have no need to defend him beyond an honest representation, but even our worse enemies are worthy of an honest representation .









 2017/7/11 11:39Profile









 Re: Greg

Blaine,

You are totally taking his words out of context.

•••••••

Brother, with all do respect what have I taken out of context. I just posted a quote that allegedly John MacArthur gave at The Strange Fire Conference. Then I simply asked for feedback from The Forum.

I expressed no opinion of my own in the OP. Granted the quote was only, by the admission of the blogger, a partial transcript. This is why I'm listening to John MacArthur's messages from Strange Fire Conference to find the full quote.

So to say I've taken something out of context is not correct since I did not express any of my own opinions.

Respectfully posted.

Bro Blaine

 2017/7/11 12:35
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

You Posted this as the subject matter :

"Are those who believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit unsaved and in a cult?"

 2017/7/11 12:50Profile









 Re:

Well Sree, no anger here, just a zealousness for all things from God and a desire to see all things from God treated with dignity and honor. The fault of course lies with man and not with God or Hi gifts all of which are beautiful and necessary as I am sure you would agree............bro Frank

 2017/7/11 14:04









 Re:

Hi PP, I would dispute the recorded history part and would simply refer you to Scripture and the word of God which never changes. Men, famous men, may hold one opinion or another but this in no way validates nor discriminates against the Word. Let the word stand and be true and let all men be liars who oppose it, no matter their standing in this world. If a thing be true then it is true otherwise we will have built error upon error and become a castaway from the truth.

So, if the Word says there are gifts and they are for the edification of the Body, then that is as simple as it gets. Any man who says differently through human wisdom let that man give an account to God for taking away or adding to the Word of God. In the end of times we will see a great persecution against the saints and in the West most of it will come from within the walls of Christendom. Without the power of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit a man will not be able to stand in that day, no matter how many sound doctrines he holds to. Unless one is endued with power from on high then they cannot stand and we know that one cannot serve two masters ultimately. In the end they will love the one and hate the other. The saints are the other.

The remnant saints will find themselves sandwiched between two enemies. The religious on one side and the charismatics on the other who will fall for false signs and wonders and will hate anyone who will chastise them for it. Jesus found Himself surrounded by enemies who had aligned themselves because of their common hatred for Him. These were dispirit groups who found common cause, hating Jesus. Pharisees and Saducees and scribes and Herodians all in the end came against Jesus. They put aside their dislikes and hatreds of each other and came together before the secular state to aid and abet in killing Jesus so that they would be able to keep their institutions. We are not far from that in the days that we live..............bro Frank

 2017/7/11 14:16





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