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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Please don't get mad at me for this-

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5916
NC, USA

 Re:

PP-

I believe in a billions of years old universe but I do not believe in evolution- at all.

There is no reason to fear a billions of years old universe. That does not equate to evolution being true.


_________________
Todd

 2017/7/3 23:27Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Tyler,

RE : ///I believe the Genesis account, why do you ask?///

That is one area that we can agree that modern scientist are confident that they are correct and we as Christians can agree that they are clearly wrong.

They are wrong about the origins of life and creation, because they refuse to think outside the box.
They are stuck in a paradigm that they created with there own imaginations.

Do you suppose in other aspects of science such as the study of the cosmos, that it could be possible that they might also be wrong because they refuse to think outside the box that they have enclosed around themselves.

I am not defending a flat earth I do not know enough about the subject to have an opinion but I am finding it interesting from what fletcher has brought forward that the Bible seems to speak of a geocentric view.

I do not have a strong opinion (never gave it much thought) but I do trust the Bible and I do not trust the Scientific community.

clarity

 2017/7/4 0:16Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

TMK,

Do you believe the Gap Theory ?

I have considered it in the past but do not have a strong opinion one way or the other on the subject

 2017/7/4 0:19Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1597
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Brothers,

Yes I get what each of you are saying and am taking each perspective into careful consideration. Having said that each of you have helped wether it was a word of encouragement or a funny reference or a sensible word of caution and I'm honestly grateful for the feedback and the mercy you've all shown as I was reluctant to bring this topic to SI but you all have contributed out of the storehouse of your hearts and that in itself is a blessing:)

I guess the reason this has really garnered my attention is the sheer gravity (pun intended;) of the recorded occurrence in a helio model.... I mean next to creation itself or the end and new beginning, this is by far the grandest and most complex of miracles and all because Joshua said so? The other acts of this magnitude by God have a far broader and more enduring effect than just to kill some people. Yes there are lessons of faith and Gods faithfulness to His peoples, etc... but I could think of at least a hundred other ways, far far easier (with the same results) than this under a heliocentric model and yet here it is, for this is what the scriptures record. So when I looked into the matter I found that the geocentric model was clearly perpetuated throughout scripture without exception.... so that seems like a big deal to me,... I mean this isn't parting a sea, or a donkey speaking with a mans voice, or even resurrection! This is almost incomprehensibly huge in action and implication (again) under a helio model- while in a geo model it fits quite neatly and proportionately. So I am willing to consider that perhaps we, in our zeal to gain understanding of the cosmos made the leap from theory to "reality" without due diligence. Setting out with a pre-perscribed notion (totally divorced from the biblical account and sometimes openly hostile to it) we sought to make it fit...
Perhaps I'm looking at it wrong but so far I can't find another view that allows for intellectual honesty and (for me) that's a very important thing.


_________________
Fletcher

 2017/7/4 1:19Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5916
NC, USA

 Re:

PP-

No I am not an avid proponent of the gap theory although it is an interesting idea that could explain much of what we observe. It could be true. I believe Scofield believed in this.

In regard to geocentric v heliocentric, I just think biblical writers wrote what they observed from their perspective. Can't blame them because there was no other perspective until Copernicus.

Fletcher I still can't determine if you think the sun and planets orbit the earth, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. What about the thousands of other star systems we have discovered where the planets orbit a sun? The earth is a tiny speck in a universe filled with other solar systems.


_________________
Todd

 2017/7/4 8:30Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1597
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Todd

I'm not saying I "believe" anything in particular about this other than there is a glaring discrepancy and my intention is to search out and (hopefully) reconcile it:)

Brother I have on many occasions been blessed by your thoughtful insights as well as your wit and humor as they find compliment with my own, tho (in this case) the course of reasoning you follow is not compatible with my sensibility for the aforementioned reasons of Holy Spirit being complicit.... (for me) if we use a "they had a primitive perspective and did the best they could" type of reasoning then the selfsame could be used to completely dismantle the whole testimony of scripture quite easily because that position excludes or at the very least minimizes the role of Holy Spirit in the formation of the texts (all scripture is God breathed) and while obviously not everything recorded in scripture is "from God" i.e.; Job's accusers, it is nonetheless included for a purpose, often for instruction as an example wether to the positive or the negative. This tho seems quite different for me and if your sensibility is satisfied with your understanding then praise God:) tho I must be honest in saying mine as yet is not and yet I'm not attempting to convince anyone of anything, again simply posing the questions my mind is wrestling with in hopes of gaining from the perspective of other saints:)

To (what seems to be) your concern, I currently do not hold to a geocentric view,... having said that I have in a short period come across some rather disturbing "coincidences" regarding the heliocentric models emergence and subsequent development.
FTR - I don't believe in coincidence,... for me it's just a word we made up to describe things we're to lazy to figure out in an effort to appease our conscience. If that term is sufficient for someone then great, however my sensibility requires of me an answer that cohesively apprehends truth. This in no way makes another person inferior or dull, it's just how my mind flows~

In any case Hope you have a Happy 4th of July!


_________________
Fletcher

 2017/7/4 10:52Profile
RogerB
Member



Joined: 2007/4/5
Posts: 266
Bruceton TN

 Re:

We accept a lot on faith. Ever see the picture of a child sitting in school and a funnel in his head with information poured in? That's us. We've all been conditioned to walk the walk and talk the talk. We go to college to learn how to work in a job, to do things a certain way, right or wrong. Look at all the past failures of mans economic and government policies. Why should I take their word in blind faith. I have been deceived many, many times but God has given me eyes to see clearer. I'm very aware of things going on. I just don't take things at face value anymore. We are told to prove all things.

Just yesterday there was an article about the Syrian occupation and how it wasn't going well. There was a map.
I saw the map as the one of The Greater Israel Project. That's what's planned. Syria is going to be done away with even as prophecy mentions. It becomes the land of the new AC who will be in Jerusalem. Deception is marching right along.

I have come to see that the world is filled with deception and lies. People actually believe what the TV news gives as news, people believe their nations leaders who God calls beasts. We accept science blindly. Every day we are fed news about going to Mars or something found on Mars. I can't verify it. I can only evaluate what I see and evaluate.

God says he fastened earth that it can't be moved. Science says oh yes it can. I'm holding to what God says. NASA has given us pictures of earth for several years. America has gotten larger and smaller. Clouds seem to repeat in patterns and even the word SEX can be seen in the last one. If one looks closely at them you can see problems.

After WW II the army went to the south pole region in Operation Highjump (To get over the ice wall). Then there was Operation Fishbowl where hundreds of expensive nuclear missiles were shot straight up. Why? Why did Hillary Clinton keep mentioning during her campaign about breaking through that "glass ceiling".

We all use science and I am not antagonistic against it. I am aware that godlessness can be pushed at you in different ways. Our children don't believe in God. Schools have trained them otherwise. Then why not use the other tools of science to remove any remaining ideas of God from their heads. make them obedient to the state.

I'm at peace with you. I have no problem with anyone on how they see things.

Thought I'add something. Just checked temperature in space. NASA says -454 degrees. Imagine the sun 93 million miles away going through that much cooling and still being hot when it reaches earth. Wow! and If we were on a globe why is it so cold at the South Pole as compared to the North? The sun hits both the same amount on a globe. I'm a logical type person. I'm been an electronic technician for about 58 years.


_________________
James R Barnes

 2017/7/4 10:58Profile









 Re:

So are some saying they believe in a flat earth?

Bro Blaine

 2017/7/4 11:26
Caleb4life
Member



Joined: 2012/7/22
Posts: 131


 Re:

It's painful to me when threads deteriorate to (what feels like) people being cornered into identifying with one "label" or another, and then from there having others attack. Where is the love in that?

So many threads get locked when conversations take that turn.

Brother Roger, I love you a lot and have greatly appreciated your willingness to boldly state your beliefs, without attacking others for not agreeing. And yet it's hard for me when you list so many contrarian ideas in one thread. It's overwhelming. I have not seen much good fruit from that approach in previous threads that broach these topics. In my opinion, you set yourself up to being written off, which I know you don't mind, since you are secure in your identity in Christ (and I do praise God for that!)!

Whereas brother Fletcher for example, has honed in on a story in the Bible and seems to be patiently and painstakingly studying and researching to come to a conclusion with a clear conscience in due time. It's much easier to bear with his tone and tact, and we would do well to learn from him in that. I'm saying this regardless of the topic!

I know people have all sorts of approaches to online conversations, but I do hope and pray these topics can continue being discussed without being derailed by condescending language toward people who are questioning the status quo mainstream narrative.

I'm learning a lot from you all through these discussions!


_________________
Caleb

 2017/7/4 12:12Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5916
NC, USA

 Re:

Fletcher-

I understand your concern. You think if the HS truly inspired ancient men what to write, then it has to be 100% accurate.

It depends on whether your definition of inspired is "dictated" or "moved."

I think the Bible is perfectly accurate where it must be. Other areas, like in poetic sections do not need to be 100% accurate because poetry by definition uses metaphors etc.

As an aside, I believe Genesis 1 is a poetry section although I realize I am in the extreme minority in that regard.

I appreciate your tone on this thread- I apologize if I seem a little testy but I do get a little riled when people start arguing for a flat earth.

Roger- when Hillary was talking about breaking through the glass ceiling she meant a woman becoming president. It is a very common term in regard to women's rights and the corporate ladder. Surely you do not think she was talking about a literal glasss ceiling of a snow globe that we live inside?


_________________
Todd

 2017/7/4 12:59Profile





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