Dear brothers and sisters,

I am today struggling with that - how far can I go in discussing politics or arguing over politics. As I said, at the university I am connected with evangelical Christians (most of them liberal, and I do not worship i.e. go to the same church with them). The thing actually that unites us most,... is that we are all at the university and receive the same scholarship...

So as we gather and discuss different topics - most of the time it is not about God; but once I had a discussion with a girl about hell and about Jesus - and it is striking to hear that some "evangelicals" don't believe in hell, in the Judgement of God and that Christ is the only way. But rather all this "inclusion" comes to the front - all religions, and almost all kinds of people (just look at the "Kirchentag" in Germany, you'll see what I mean). And now there are going to be elections in Germany and one of the topics being discussed is "marriage for all" - i.e. homosexual relationships to be put on the same level as heterosexual marriages. Now they are only allowed as "partnerships".

So how far should I go in this discussions? Of course, I am against it (and I am not even going to vote, because I am a foreigner...) but what about the Bible?! Family is the foundation of society! Why do they want to destroy it?! Should I just sit around and be quiet or should I say out loud what I believe and know to be true?! (Sounds even now as a rhetoric question...) And of course in the appropriate time - I am not starting a campaign or something, because it is just not my calling... but still I could speak openly about that if discussion comes, can't I?

What is more puzzling is that the students voted that I and another boy be speakers / representatives for the whole group... so I am kind of wondering how to rightly use that authority

I know that Church and state are two separate things - but should Christians be really silent on issues like abortions, homosexuals?! And when they are not silent, why should they fight on the wrong side?! (i.e. protecting and encouraging sin)...

Lord, help!

Esther,

You addressed your post to brethren and I am a female - mind if I chime in?

In my experience of answering questions whose answer seemed to elude me was to make this a matter of serious prayer: discussing this issue with the LORD via the Holy Spirit and then when asked to speak be silent until you feel led to speak. Do not make notes in your study, just depend 100% on the Holy Spirit. You will find that in doing so you will end up saying things in a way you in your own mind never considered before. The Holy Spirit is brilliant! Paul tells us that one should not premeditate when before the magistrates...check it out.

And do come back with a report - would love to hear what happened.

You have more questions but will let others answer them.

God bless.

Sandra

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Sandra Miller

Hey sister Sandra,

So glad you answered! I've just edited the post. Usually when I say brethren, I mean brothers AND sisters but will keep that in mind for further discussions.

Thank you for the advice! I honestly did not have so much time to pray, because I was to meet with some of them the same evening. It's very strange...

I was still at university, trying to learn in the meantime... but was kind of inwardly afraid. What would their reaction be? And as I could not stand the pressure, I just found somewhere a quiet place to pray for a while and then wrote just few sentences. The conversation was in our whatsapp group:

X: - The marriage for all have to go through (be voted for) in Berlin. Greetings
Me: - Have to? We have different opinions on politics... but thanks for the greetings

And then another student (from the group) wrote privately that 'marriage for all' is supported from many students in the organisation. And that the organisation is liberal (although it should be evangelical). I answered that for me it does not matter whether others support it or not because the definiton of marriage was given by God and we cannot change that.

But I think there is a much tougher fight ahead. It sometimes really get me to think - either "My Utmost for His Highest" or Christianity is not worth it at all. How can you go midstream?!...

Hope to come to the discussion later

God be with you!

Sister, I am happy to see you take the strong stand for the Lord. You can use your position to state your view strongly. Even if you cannot influence anyone, at least the fact that you took a stand for the Lord will matter the most.

I am not against homosexuals living together, though I believe they are practicing sin. It is same as any idol worshipper living next to me.

But when it comes to marriage, I believe it should be between man and women only. As you have stated, God has defined marriage between man and women only. Now someone can question me, how does that affect me if someone marry outside God's word. It does affect.

For example, if someone next to you is printing currency notes themselves, then does it not affect you? Even if it is illegal, still it will definitely reduce the value of currency that you have in hand. What is the use of you earning those currency when someone is easily just printing it. So fake currency can reduce the value of real currency. Same way fake marriage (that is outside the definition of marriage between a man and women) will also reduce the value of real marriage in the society. So we should all be concerned.
I am totally fine with anyone printing a toy currency that no one wants to officially recognize as real currency. But when you seek official recognition for a toy currency, then it is a problem.

Hence I believe everyone who holds the real currency (marriage between man and women) should voice their view against illegal printing of currency (marriage for all).

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Sreeram

A little update:

I yesterday posted something like 3 sentences on facebook about that, saying that we cannot change the definition of marriage etc. And some of my colleagues got angry about it and get offended. The discussion got long and it still goes on.

Please pray that the law may not pass - they are going to vote about it on Friday. And also please pray that we may stand on the Lord's side no matter if people get angry at us or try to argue that we have to view this sin as another type of "love".

Don't have time to write more now,...

"The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen!"

When you read the New Testament Jesus Christ never argue with anyone about the doctrine or politics, but instead he silenced them with a phrase or walked away from the crowd (John 2:24-25) ... we should imitate Christ in this.

I experienced in my life too how it is just a "waste of energy" to argue with people, those Atheist and those people who do not see things in the same way as us.

We should do our best in our part to share the light and faith in Christ in us to others, and it is up to them to accept it or reject it. We should not go beyond our energy wasting time arguing with people.

The ultimate best thing to do is to pray for them and pray for the unsave people that they will accept Jesus Christ before it is too late. There is a power in prayer...

Esther,

If you have time I suggest you go to Ravi Zacharias' website and listen to him share Biblical worldviews with secular college students. You can learn a lot from listening to him.

Still, the heart of the matter is not what is marriage but a man's relationship with God but I know you cannot address this issue but who knows, the Holy Spirit may lead you to do so in an subtle way you cannot now imagine. Can happen..

When I did counseling at a crises pregnancy center my basic strategy was;
1. Discuss her current situation.
2. How does she feel about it.
3. What does she think is the best solution to her problem.
4. Discuss the physical, spiritual, emotional ramifications of her lifestyle.
5. Then....what does the Bible say about it? What solution does it have for her situation? and why is she is this mess?

A person does not systematically go through 1,2,3, etc but these points are interwoven through out the discussion although I would wait to introduce the Biblical one until last. I would work to be careful to not hit her over the head with it, though. I have learned people KNOW. I could NOT tell them anything they did not know, either by teaching or instinctively.

I am suggesting the people instinctively know the truth but are fighting it. And...the laws of nature reinforce God's word on this issue, as well as any other, for that matter. It may be well to know the physical ramifications of same sex unions before you make your presentation.

Just some ideas - hoping it will stimulate your thinking. But I know you will be walking into a lions den and they are hungry and will try to tear you apart...just remember this is God's battle and you are one of his soldiers. Success in winning this battle is not important; but obedience is. If you help just one person to rethink this thing, get him/her to consider God you have succeeded. And...you may never know in this life whether this has been accomplished.

Enough for now and God bless. Will pray for you as the HS reminds me.

Sandra

EDITED

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Sandra Miller

Esther

As I read what you wrote I tried to put myself into your position and ask how do I handle this. I go with what I know and that is God's Word is true and I first become steadfast in that and that is the basis of truth regardless of the shifts in society and in the church.

When the conflicts of interests come in and I see the disension then I begin to ask questions to find out why these people are thinking this way. It will usually stem from society and the trends going on and not established from the bible. Often times it is emotional as well. I find out the origins of that thinking and then gradually steer it to the bible. If there is disagreement then you will eventually find out that these people don't believe what the bible says but more what society and the shifts in it are doing. It begins a foundation built on sand.

You will you then find yourself as an island in being steadfast in truth. So then what I do is teach myself to remain steadfast against the opposition because I know to abide in the Word is the firm foundation. To not abide is to be swept along by the waves of the sea of emotions and threats. Jesus said we will be hated. You have to then take courage from the Word as well as seek out other Christians who believe as you do for comfort. Sometimes forums may have to be that comfort as well.

When it comes to politics that becomes a dead end street and when you mix religion with it then religion becomes life less but it can also become authoritarian as well. Neither of them would be from God imo.

In the end seek to use the bible to inject a firm foundation in those discussion because often times science is what is used and science is always changing. There is no firm foundation in science it is often dictated by grants from the government and not unbiased opinion.

Does this help at all?

John

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John

Well, they voted for it... perhaps this is no news.

And perhaps I should not be surprised neither by their answers, nor at the whole situation. What amazes me, is just the hatred with which some individuals talk (or refuse to talk!) to me... That some people become your enemies overnight!

For me the debate was not even political but rather about the meaning, the definition of marriage. You cannot change that by law!

But... they will understand one day, that this was a great mistake. It is sad that so many kids will suffer from this abomination though, because they are allowed to adopt children... Horrible!

As some said, I won't wonder if in the future you are allowed to marry an animal. Or if you speak out against the madness in society, will be considered to be mad, thrown in prison or be threatened for "hate speech". Because people obviously have also a new understanding of love, hate and truth. But it's not going to be for the first time in history.

Thank you all for the advices!

@DEADn - I and a sister in the Lord, that I love very much, have different opinions on Trump for example. But I won't let that separate us. So, I know there is limitation in putting Christianity and politics in one discussion. This time it was because (for me) it is a very crucial question, which is more moral than political.

"Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might."

"But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;"

"For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer."

Thank God that He is always with us and give us the mind of Christ, so that we do not go with the crowd!

God bless you,

We are in the year 2017.That is thousands of years and this world in terms of spirituality has not gotten any better than it was 2000 years ago. Strong consideration must be given to the realization of the making of law (thou shalt not....) in a fallen world is going to advance the kingdom of God. The answer is no and we have 2000 years to prove it. The Christian should focus on being Christlike, they should not impose their belief but rather say regardless of what law is pass; we will not bow, as for me and my house we will serve the lord.This is a personal faith and it must be in our God and not in a political structure. Yes I believe a Christian should vote but I don't think the mission is to evangelize political positions but rather position ourselves as lights so that the world could see and God can be glorified. You can not help but to get entangled in bondage if you get involved in this world system. I mean really the christian obligation is not to get America or any other country ready for Jesus return but get himself ready. You are in an airplane about to go down, are you really going to be concern with who is voting for who on the plane. I think not. Just my thoughts, hope it helps.

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Barry